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Author Topic: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear  (Read 114789 times)

steamboatmodel

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #275 on: July 07, 2013, 11:40:59 pm »

If I rememmber correct the proper PTFE sealing tape for gas is a yellow colour. I have been useing some gas pipe compound that I was given years back. Most people when they apply the tape use too much and cover too much of the threads,the first two engaging threads should be bare.
Regards,
Gerald.
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pettyofficernick

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #276 on: July 07, 2013, 11:49:01 pm »

I did try and keep the first couple of threads clear of tape, but sods law, coupled with my dodgy hands and banana like fingers dictated otherwise.....
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steamboatmodel

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #277 on: July 08, 2013, 12:01:40 am »

Yes sometimes however hard you try the tape will magically move, I started doing pneumatics back in the 60s and have been doing them off and on ever since and I still occasionally get tape blockages
Regards,
Gerald.
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derekwarner

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #278 on: July 08, 2013, 12:43:15 am »

Yes guys....then there is the unspoken rule in the direction of winding the PTFE tape..... :((
For a right hand thread [as most fluid connections are  {-) ] the tape should be wound anticlockwise when looking onto the fittings thread end
This then places the tape layer in tension/shear as the fitting is engaged & the tape is forced into the valley or root of the thread forms creating an effective seal ....... O0 ...winding the tape clockwise results in the tape being gouged out or the thread form when engaged  >>:-(
In OZ...the Australian Gaslight Co....will only allow licenced plumbers who use the nominated yellow [gas] PTFE tape to install gas appliances
However there is a misconception here in what actual properties [if any] is there between white PTFE & yellow dyed PTFE tape apart from the yellow being of higher density <*< ...... .....
Here is an image from the WIKIPI people & yes the tape is depicted as being wound clockwise ....or back to front  %%  .......Derek

 
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ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #279 on: July 08, 2013, 11:16:10 am »

Hi Guys,
Why do you have to wrap P.T.F.E tape or any other sealant round the thread of the jets ?
Do you have leaks that cause the jet in the jet block to go on fire ?

My mates and I have been running steam boats for the past 20 years , making our own jet blocks and buying the jets as we don't have any Micro drills to bore them and have never used any sealant what so ever.
We used the original metric threaded jets ( 4.5 x 5 ) and then the new type which are 1 BA and never had any trouble using them dry.

Who told you that you need to seal the jets in the jet block ?
When you buy a burner from Maccsteam does Mike  recommend that you use a sealant if you have to re-new the jet ?

Give it a try fitting them dry and tighten them up but not so tight that you strip the threads.

George.
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pettyofficernick

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #280 on: July 08, 2013, 11:22:40 am »

Good Morning George, I only used Tape on the joint because earlier in this thread I think it was Jerry had said that Mike at Maccsteam had recommended it, I had no problems with leaks, I just thought it sounded like a good idea, I have had no problems in the past. Needless to say, I wont be using it again and will go back to fitting them dry...........
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #281 on: July 22, 2013, 04:21:43 pm »

Took the launch to Colwyn Bay Model Boat Club's regatta, Our first show type trip. Steamboat Phil couldn't attend due to last minute work commitments. Pity, was looking forward to a chat cos when I saw him last (at Llanberis) I was "thinking of" building a steam project. Anyway everyone happy and helpful and soon the time for the boat parade was imminent so flashed up the boiler and was ready bang on time when catastrophy, engine no run!! Pressure on both sides of the pistons. Couldn't do anything at the lakeside but on the way home it came to me that the other valve spindle collar had come adrift on the shaft(glued, remember). Whizzed the valve chest off and bingo, good guess. Replaced spindle with one of my 2 spares and she's running again sweet as a nut. Possibly a weak point on these engines. Have kept the old ones and will solder them so no bother really. Also noticed excessive play on one of the reversing sliders so renewed that at same time. It was possibly fortunate that I could not steam as the water in the lake was full of something which looked like it would block my feed pump valves. We still had a good time and there were some very beautiful models on show as well as on the water. Will look forward to next year as it's dead handy for me. Thanks to the club and the organisers for a very nice day.
Jerry and Dave.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #282 on: September 03, 2013, 05:36:39 pm »

Had another valve spindle failure Sunday before last so today removed them and soldered the valve drivers onto the spindles. Whilst setting the valve timing on rebuild I notice that if the reversing lever was move too far past the bottom notch the valves could hit the valve chests and this could have caused all my failures. I have always thought that Mr Grahame knew what he was doing when he made these engines. If after soldering my spindles the above happens to me again something else will have to give. To make certain it doesn't I have put a physical stop on the bottom of the detent bar so the lever cannot be moved too far. It's made from a 13 amp plug pin. A test run shows it running smoother than ever both ahead and astern.
Jerry.

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #283 on: September 03, 2013, 06:51:09 pm »

As  Master Mariner now having to overcome engineering
problems albeit on a smaller scale, do you have more
affinity (if that's the right word) with the Chief Engineers
you sailed with?.

Ned

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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #284 on: September 03, 2013, 08:54:48 pm »

Ned, I've never been an oil and water man. Dad was an engineer who only wanted to go to sea but his dad wouldn't let him cos there was a war in the offing. I was interested in engines and he was a brilliant teacher. I could put an engine together when I was six. Ran a small engineering firm for a while in the 80s. On some of my recent delivery jobs knowing how the engine room works has come in handy.
Jerry.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #285 on: September 14, 2013, 09:05:02 pm »

Friday, up at 0darkhundred, take wife to Penmaenmawr to get coach to Manchester for Craft Exibition. Then back home, put launch, backpack and flask in car for short trip to Daves, transfer to his camper van and off to the canal at Chirk. We make "The Poachers" our base. Raised steam and, in company with Daves tug, head off against the current towards the Chirk Aquaduct. Weather as forecast, overcast and warm. Engine after repairs ran better than ever and launch ploughed on at about 3 mph. A lot of leaves floating on surface keep getting caught on the stem but don't cause a problem. Gas running low after 35mins so hauled her out for a fill. No delays on refilling as air temp such that gas tank is not warm and refill takes the usual 90 secs. Re-lit the burner and after a couple of minutes returned to the water and resumed passage. Quite busy narrowboatwise and plenty of peeps on the towpath. Got to the Aquaduct and waited a little while for an oncoming boat then ran straight across and into the pound before the tunnel. Two boats coming through so took the opportunity to top up fuel and drain the de-oiler. Tunnel empty so donned head torches and entered canal. Got about 20 yards in and both torches packed in so discretion v valour etc. turned short round and headed back. I don't seem to have much luck with LEDs! As proceeding with wind and current made good time and got back to "The Poachers" on one tankful. After scampi and chips and a cappuccino returned to the water heading the other way towards "Lion Quays". The steam pressure started to drop off towards 20 psi and I thought the jet was blocked so pulled her out, cleared the jet(it looked OK to me) and resumed passage. Still no good. The last fill was the end of a bottle so, refilled with a new bottle and flame back to normal again. Made "Lion Quays", did a few turns around the basin and set off back to the pub. Things went downhill from there. Dave fouled his prop on a bramble, fortunately on the towpath side but towpath quite high above the water with a steep slope. Dave cleared his prop and I decided that as it had started to rain quite heavily, we wouldn't bother refuelling "Wear" but put a line on Dave's tug and he would tow me back to the pub. Easier said than done. Got a passer by to hang on to my legs and me hanging upside down trying to attach the line to the tow hook. Couldn't get the bar to stay down so tied it round the capstan. Scrabbled my way back on to the towpath and with spots before my eyes, set off home. Got back without further incident, packed up and after a cup of tea returned home. We used 4 tanks of gas and steamed a little over 7 miles, had at least a million photos taken, made many passes for videos to be taken and made many people's day special. That's the real power of steam.
I couldn't move next morning I was so stiff but a 10 mile bike ride accompanying shmbo got me started again. A thoroughly enjoyable day.
Jerry.

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #286 on: September 14, 2013, 10:30:47 pm »

PHOTOSSSSSSSSSSSSS {-)

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #287 on: September 14, 2013, 10:53:16 pm »

Steam Up,
Sorry mate, I can't drive the boat and take photos or i'll end up in the brambles. Dave's a technophobe. I keep asking the peeps who take videos to put them on YouTube but nobody ever does.
Jerry.

wrongtimeben

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #288 on: September 20, 2013, 10:06:01 am »

I'm not gonna be y' friend anymore if you don't let me come and play! 4 miles!  <*<


I promise to take lots of photos and videos and ill even bring me canoe as a rescue boat and camera platform. 


Glad you had a good day.


Ben
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #289 on: September 20, 2013, 11:09:17 am »

I did think of you on the way down. It was all at short notice. Will let you know next time. It'll be on a cold frosty day when all the leaves have fallen. It's lovely then and not as much boat traffic.
Jerry.

wrongtimeben

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #290 on: September 20, 2013, 01:06:03 pm »

I'll get me dry suit dusted off in anticipation :} .  Best bring some secateurs for the brambles too!
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #291 on: November 17, 2013, 04:22:09 pm »

It was a beautiful day at Llanberis today with little wind so took "Wear" up for a steam. Flashed up and raised steam, put her in the water and ran her to prove feed pump as always. No workie! Pumped water into boiler through bypass and clack valve with big syringe. Still no workie. Used syringe to put water in through pump suction, found blocked solid, not a drop. I removed the pump and took off the banjo bolt only to find no viton ball in its proper place inside the pump. Very strange. Eventually found the ball forced through the seat and deep in the banjo bolt. How this happened I can't think. I managed to prise it out with my smallest watchmaker's screwdriver, miraculously without leaving a mark on it. Boxed it all back off again and all functioned Perfick, as usual.
Jerry.

steamboatmodel

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #292 on: November 17, 2013, 08:36:57 pm »

Due to the nasty side affects of Viton I have always avoided it like the plague.
Regards,
Gerald.
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ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #293 on: November 17, 2013, 08:47:09 pm »

It was a beautiful day at Llanberis today with little wind so took "Wear" up for a steam. Flashed up and raised steam, put her in the water and ran her to prove feed pump as always. No workie! Pumped water into boiler through bypass and clack valve with big syringe. Still no workie. Used syringe to put water in through pump suction, found blocked solid, not a drop. I removed the pump and took off the banjo bolt only to find no viton ball in its proper place inside the pump. Very strange. Eventually found the ball forced through the seat and deep in the banjo bolt. How this happened I can't think. I managed to prise it out with my smallest watchmaker's screwdriver, miraculously without leaving a mark on it. Boxed it all back off again and all functioned Perfick, as usual.
Jerry.

Hi Jerry.
You have possibly left the circuit closed the last time that you use it and as the boiler cooled the vacuum pulled the NITRILE ball ( not Viton ) into the banjo bolt, leave your bypass valve open after usage.
If it happens again let me know and I can make you another banjo bolt with a smaller hole.

George.
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frazer heslop

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #294 on: November 17, 2013, 11:04:05 pm »

Hi Jerry, An anti vac valve maybe the way to go .If you are like me I also forget to leave the bypass open.
best wishes
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #295 on: November 17, 2013, 11:17:07 pm »

Hi all. Believe vacuum in boiler lifts clack ball, opens pump discharge and suction valves, allowing air into boiler. If I leave the boat in the water when she cools down the boiler fills up. This problem required a lot of pressure to force the ball towards the sea side. Sorry George, I meant nitrile. What are the side effects of viton cos somebody mentioned problems with it at the lake and I'd never heard of it?
Jerry.

steamboatmodel

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #296 on: November 18, 2013, 12:05:24 am »

here is a link to a Material Safety Sheet on Viton O Rings;
https://www.edwardsvacuum.com/uploadedFiles/Resource/MSDS/P120-04-015D%20O-Rings-Viton.pdf
In short at high temperatures or fires it can produce Hydrofluoric acid.
Regards,
Gerald.
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derekwarner

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #297 on: November 18, 2013, 12:11:04 am »

Jerry
Viton elastomer should only be used in applications where the ambient or actual temperature exceeds say 95 degrees C
Viton being a softer material [than N-BR] has a lower abrasion resistance & naturally is less capable of sustaining the typical sharper edges of a valve seat in dynamic applications
It is true that Viton if exposed to naked flame or ~~~300 degrees C +  causes the production of hydrofluoric acid [HF] within or on the burnt elastomer
HF, eats human skin...... ..... cases have been documented where such physical exposure & contact with human skin results in the need for amputation of an arm at the next joint away
We simply treat any hydraulic cylinder [fitted with Viton elastomer seals] from Blast Furnace or BOS applications with the due respect the burnt elastomer seal & O-rings it deserves .....Derek
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Derek Warner

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ooyah/2

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #298 on: November 18, 2013, 12:27:08 am »

Hi all. Believe vacuum in boiler lifts clack ball, opens pump discharge and suction valves, allowing air into boiler. If I leave the boat in the water when she cools down the boiler fills up. This problem required a lot of pressure to force the ball towards the sea side. Sorry George, I meant nitrile. What are the side effects of viton cos somebody mentioned problems with it at the lake and I'd never heard of it?
Jerry.

Hi Jerry,
As the banjo is on the suction side of your pump there should be no pressure when the boiler cools down creating the vacuum and all of the other valves should lift and as you have experienced the boiler will prime if left in the water to cool.
I can't think of any reason why the ball should be stuck down into the banjo unless the hole is too big, send it back to me and I will make you a new one with a smaller hole.

I wonder why Viton being so dangerous did Chedder,  Mamod ,Wilesco and other model boiler makers fit them to their safety valves ?

George.
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear
« Reply #299 on: November 18, 2013, 12:44:30 am »

Thanks for that George. If it happens again I'll do that. It's a puzzle. On the viton subject the only place I've come across it is on the tips of the needle valves in the float chambers on Amal carburettors. Nothing's dropped off me so I'm lucky. I never knew about it though. I thought the acid came from electronic components that were damaged. Thanks all.
Goodnight.
Jerry.
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