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  • Mayhem at Wicksteed 2012: June 02, 2012 - June 03, 2012
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Author Topic: Mayhem at Wicksteed 2012 - June 2 & 3 !!!  (Read 182139 times)

john s 2

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2011, 09:30:10 PM »

Sounds a sound idea.Possibly for more expensive items a percentage? John
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Shipmate60

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2011, 12:27:15 AM »

Colin,
Last year was a 1 off as the Wicksteed Weekend had been planned and was in severe danger of being cancelled purely from lack of funding as Martin had been made redundant.
It does however make me wonder just how much Martin has put his hand in his own pocket to pay for the Forum (yes I know donations are available) and Wicksteed over the years.
Now Martin has recognised now that help is needed, I hope that assistance will be forthcomming.
Between the suggested help it should be able to utilise the expertise of the members to produce another memorable weekend.
If purely donations are used then some "up front" finance will have to be available.
I would not like to see a Wicksteed Weekend and if I had the time would willingly assist in any way.
With the help of members it would become a Mayhem event in reality.

Bob
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Bill D203

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2011, 08:24:38 AM »

Colin has come up wioth some good idears. However is He happy to arrive on Friday morning to set it all up and stay till we are all done on Sunday to clear it all up??
Re the money side of things, Yes 5.00 a head should cover it nicely. So when you go and get a Tea or coffee why not drop in the box a 1 a cup.

Some years ago Martin did set out a time table for both days. By lunchtime it had been thrown out cause it did not work as boaters was not ready for there time slots and lots of other ressons.

Part of the charm of this weekend is to have FUN!!! not to be pushed around to fit in with the timetable. I have to do that at work! blow that during a weekend of fun.

Now then, I take it IC boats are still band from useing the lake?? Some of the Wicksteed MBC saw my lifeboat at Deans Marine open day. I think most of them agreed it would not upset anyone, but alass it is band. For this resson I will not be where i am not going to be welcome.
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richtea

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2011, 12:42:07 PM »

You will be missed Bill,
surely a common sense solution can be found ?
Regards
Richard  :-))
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2011, 01:01:27 PM »

Bob,

Yes, I agree that this year was a one off and were it not for the generosity of yourself and a few others the event would not have gone ahead. But, as you say, this shouldn't be the way things are done. I am sure that the majority of people attending are more than happy to contribute to the costs and it's really a case of harnessing that willingness. I also take your point about needing at least some of the finance 'up front' to relieve financial pressure on the organisers. There is a donation mechanism on Mayhem  and while I am not certain whether I will be able to attend next year at this stage, I would still be very happy to make an upfront donation on the assumption that I will come. Others may prefer to make a donation on the day which might entail dipping into any financial 'reserves' Mayhem might have. While Martin has been very generous in the past in providing free drinks etc. I don't think it at all unreasonable that people should pay for these at a minimum of cost price. As Bill says, it's no great hardship to drop maybe 50p or 1 in the box and any surplus will go to help fund the event. I don't know what the situation is with the traders but I would hope they are prepared to make their own voluntary donations if it is not possible to charge them a small sum directly because of park regulations etc. As I say, I don't know what the actual 'balance sheet' for the event is but given the number of attendees, traders and the work put in by volunteers I would imagine that the baseline cost could be covered without anyone having to dig too deep in their pockets. I don't think we should have a fixed entry fee as some people are in a better position to contribute than others so just a suggested average sum could be mentioned.

Bill,

Yes, I agree with you that the event should be fun and I am not suggesting that it should be unduly regimented. However, when you have made a 260 mile round trip and been unable to run your own boats for fear of them being damaged or sunk it is not quite so much fun. I visited on the Saturday this year and witnessed quite a number of collisions due to careless driving, any one of which would have wiped out my boats completely. I am simply suggesting that we introduce a few common sense measures to ensure that everyone enjoys the day bearing in mind that the nature of Mayhem offers the opportunity to see a very wide variety of models in action as opposed to sitting on a stand in an exhibition. Giving the smaller, slower, more vulnerable boats their own space at the normally less used end of the lake would be one. I think the timetable tried in the past was probably too detailed but it should be quite possible to identify just a few blocks of time, (say 30-45 minutes) between the free sailing sessions for specific sessions for categories such as sailing boats, straight runners, a warship parade, Springers etc. Some of these models could also participate in the free sailing sessions as well if the owners are happy to do do so. With regard to people 'not being ready' then I suggest they need to be a bit better organised! Phil Abbott doesn't seem to have a problem with this and he runs steamers. Also, I doubt if that would be an acceptable excuse in your normal racing programme!

More and more people now have 2.4Ghz radios but active frequency control is still needed as otherwise there is a tenedency for people to walk off with the peg and hog the frequency. OK, you can find them and ask for a go yourself but it is better if people simply book say half hour slots and only continue running by agreement with frequency control if the next slot is empty.

I am not going to comment on the  ban on IC as I have heard several different versions of the reasons for this.

Colin
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wartsilaone

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2011, 01:51:20 PM »

I'm hoping to make it again this coming year and would be happy to make a donation up front, even if in the end I don't manage it.
SWMBO will of course have the final say on which days I will be there, but I am happy to lend a hand. The Norsea will probably be coming again as this is the only working boat I have. I will be nice to get her out a few more times before she retires from active service.

Ali.
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Klunk

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2011, 07:46:44 PM »

I have been for the last couple of years now, camping till Sunday, have helped setup, take down, retrieve gazebos from the lake, walking down to the lake in the middle of the night and various other little jobs, all done willingly with Martin Phil and stars plus a few I don't know. Thanks are not needed, as I see it as a duty to help at this event.
 AS stated earlier, I am happy to help all weekend. A donation, no problem . I also agree that the far end of the lake is under utilised, there is a safe area behind the catch net for the straight runners, this area was only used on Sunday after the wind really got up. Saturday it was used by the subs and Our northern brethren with the haggi! A sc would be good, but it needs to be in conjunction with wicksteed mbc and the park authorities, with everything on the table UPFRONT, this Includes fast electrics and ic as well as sail, steam, scale, submarines  and any other type of marine modelling. A structured programme, time slots for certain types of model fine, as long as it is done sensibly it would not present any problems. But remember the lake is quite big if used correctly, not with everyone down one end of the lake!
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chingdevil

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2011, 09:45:15 PM »

CALLING ALL VOLUNTEERS

Wicksteed Weekend Steering Group


This year instead of Martin having to organise the Mayhem Weekend on his own we are looking for some volunteers so the work load can be shared between a group of us. 

Now some of you have already indicated that you would be willing to help, so if you can send me a PM with what you are willing to do we can then start organising what is going to happen over that weekend and by who.

Can you also let me know when you would be getting to the event, that way we will know when to expect you and not panic that something is not going to get done


At the moment we have shipmate60, steamboatphil and myself in the group.


Brian
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Shipmate60

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2011, 10:03:35 PM »

Just to get the ball rolling we have our first confirmed volunteer:

Events/Schedual  organizer
Traders organizer              -    Mark of MarksModelBits
Frequency control
Tea / coffee / dinner ladies
Park Parking....

Any traders thinking about attending please contact Mark.

Bob
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Welsh Wizard

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2011, 12:12:42 AM »

Well brian you can add my name to the Steering Group for Mayhem 2012 cant you  :-)) I'll give you a little clue I'm the one USUALLY trying to catch those so called Straight running Boats that Steam Boat Phil Keeps launching at me



Welsh Wizard
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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2011, 10:06:57 AM »

CALLING ALL VOLUNTEERS

Wicksteed Weekend Steering Group


This year instead of Martin having to organise the Mayhem Weekend on his own we are looking for some volunteers so the work load can be shared between a group of us. 

Now some of you have already indicated that you would be willing to help, so if you can send me a PM with what you are willing to do we can then start organising what is going to happen over that weekend and by who.

Can you also let me know when you would be getting to the event, that way we will know when to expect you and not panic that something is not going to get done


At the moment we have shipmate60, steamboatphil and myself in the group.


Brian


PM sent, Dave.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2011, 10:33:29 AM »

When asking for volunteers you might like to consider what 'set piece' sessions are likely to be run. Given that much of each day will be dedicated to free sailing there is a danger of trying to cram too much in which is what I think happened previously.

For example some likely popular set piece sessions might be:
Parade of warships
Parade of Sail
Straight running

This probably only leaves space for one or two more unless you have different set pieces on each day in which case people who can only attend on one day might miss the one they would be most interested in participating in. Once you know what sessions will be running and when then you can recruit the appropriate people to manage them and leave them to get on with it.

As I have said previously, and others have agreed, it also makes sense to make maximum use of the lake to avoid all the action being crammed up one end and my suggestion of a simple scale course in a designated area at the far end from the entrance would do this and also separate out the more vulnerable models from the bigger ones.

To save people being lumbered with a rather boring job, frequency control could be on a 'managed self service' basis. If boards for 27mhz and 40mhz were to be prepared for each day designating the available slots for free sailing in 30 minute blocks then on arrival boaters could block in a maximum of say three non consecutive sessions for their frequency. When coming to the end of their slot, if no one has at that time taken the next slot then they could carry on for another half an hour. If during the day it appears that there is no one else on your frequency you could block in additional slots with an asterisk against your name signifying that you are willing to stand down if somebody else does want to run on that frequency. That way the frequency control would more or less take care of itself and the boards could be kept in the control tent or on one of the participating club stands. A Frequency Control officer could be appointed to deal with any disputes or issues that might arise but wouldn't need to be on continuous duty.

Frequency control for the set piece sessions would need to be organised separately by the controller of the session.

Colin
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Number 6

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2011, 03:24:26 PM »

It looks like I'll be supervising the 27MHz and 40MHz frequency 'peg' board. I've suggested much as Colin and others have said:

1. 30 mins slots, after which the pegs should be returned. If nobody else wants to use said peg then the user can retain it for the next 30 min slot and so on. There should be a clock with the correct time by the peg board. This is the one the timings go off, not someones watch, mobile phone or whatever to avoid any argument. Slot times are on the hour or half hour.

2.  There should be a sheet on the peg board with time slots across the top, pegs down the side. Anyone using a peg MUST write their boat name/own name or both in the slot. This will help retrieve missing and non returned pegs, and help keep track of users and make sure everyone has a fair chance to sail.

3.  Nobody should expect to be able to 'reserve' a specific frequency for the whole day or weekend.

4.  There will probably be periods set aside for specific displays of certain craft such as:
     Warships/Naval
     Sail power
     Lifeboats/rescue craft
     Straight running

These periods should run on both days. There perhaps should be an hour at least between these specific displays for 'free' sailing.

I agree it would be a good idea to make better use of the bottom end of the lake. A scale course would be a great addition, especially for the more vulnerable boats. This I assume could still be used when the 'specific displays' are taking place (except straight running unless you're brave), priority for frequencies should go to those wanting to take part in the display though.

The system should pretty much run itself so long as everyone agrees to whatever the final 'rules' are. It's getting much less of a problem these days with 2.4ghz systems getting cheaper and cheaper. You now know what to put on your Christmas list if you've not already got one,
                                                                       Dave.  :-))
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6705russell

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2011, 03:49:57 PM »

Judging by how many people sail at once and the ratio of 2.4ghz kit to 27/40mhz I would of thought that a sailing time of 45 minutes would be closer to the mark Dave?  By the time someone as got the peg and started sailing 5/10 mins will have already passed...See what you think.

Russ
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Subculture

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2011, 06:17:59 PM »

To avoid the problems with disappearing pegs, at the Dive-ins I use a clipboard with a frequency sheet. Submariners use either 27mhz or 40mhz, 2.4ghz being out of bounds underwater. I go around and ask people at the start of the event what frequency they are on, including any spare crystals, and then advise of any clashes. It works quite well, although it could become unwieldy for larger events.

The only problem experienced was when one person gave me the wrong frequency, so we inadvertently had a clash. The only way around that one is to use a frequency checker, and ask the person to switch their transmitter on to check the frequency.

Welsh Wizard

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2011, 07:03:29 PM »

In response to what Colin has allready Posted about his SMALL delicate models and others who are in the same boat so to speak, how about this for a Master plan or as Blackadder would say BALDRICK WE HAVE A CUNNING PLAN.

I suggest that we cordon off the straight running course so anyone who want to play can do so ALL weekend

The area to the left of the straight running course will be set out as a SCALE area ONLY,and NO large boats will be allowed to sail in it,I know a lot of work goes into the scale boats and I personally would not be amused if I had one run over.    In this area we will incorporate a small steering type course and a dock of some sorts.

The area to the right of the straight running course will of course be the main area of sailing,we could therefore put some steering obstacles in this part as in previous years.

I do hope this will be a suitable compromise that everyone will agree to as there is NO other way in my humble opinion of making everyone happy NOT THAT WE CAN !!!!!!

As one who seems to live in the lake all weekend I know this is a lot of work but hey ho if EVERYONE is HAPPY then I will have done something right.


One thing that immediately springs to mind is that we are going to need a LOT of weights this year to hold all the buoys etc down,if anyone knows of any sash weights going FREE or old Brake discs then MOORE the merrier as I am limited to how many I can carry down to the event.

Dave



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Colin Bishop

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2011, 07:26:21 PM »

Dave,

Yes, the 'scale course' could include the existing dock and extend up that side of the lake to the end. Then the other side next to the railway would be free for other stuff such as straight running. The limits of the scale area could be delineated by a series of buoys. This would give the scale guys a 'safe' area although they would be perfectly free to run on other parts of the lake if they wished to. So basically the scale area would then be the upper left quadrant of the lake when viewed from the entrance. I think that wpould work pretty well.

It would also be good if more of the traders and clubs could be located at that end of the lake to spread things around a bit.

Colin
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Number 6

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2011, 07:38:42 PM »

To avoid the problems with disappearing pegs, at the Dive-ins I use a clipboard with a frequency sheet. Submariners use either 27mhz or 40mhz, 2.4ghz being out of bounds underwater. I go around and ask people at the start of the event what frequency they are on, including any spare crystals, and then advise of any clashes. It works quite well, although it could become unwieldy for larger events.

The only problem experienced was when one person gave me the wrong frequency, so we inadvertently had a clash. The only way around that one is to use a frequency checker, and ask the person to switch their transmitter on to check the frequency.

Subs

I had thought about the issues with subs and them having to use 27 or 40MHz. The only problem with checking frequencies at the start of the days sailing is that there are people coming and going all day, in an hour or two the situation may be completely different.
I would imagine that there will be spare crystals around and if there is a problem it could soon be resolved.

Question? Would I be right in assuming it is most probably easier to change the crystals in a boat than a sub due to their construction? If that's the case I would recommend that ideally the boat should change frequencies. That seems fair enough to me?

Lake 'Segregation'

Welcome back to the Welsh Wizard, your idea sound interesting. Like you say though it's certainly going to need a lot of marker buoys, I thought the straight running ran virtually from one end of the lake to the other? I'm sure you or steamboatphil (ML Boater) can put us right... O0

                                                                             Dave.  :-))
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Subculture

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2011, 07:59:33 PM »

Would I be right in assuming it is most probably easier to change the crystals in a boat than a sub due to their construction?

It greatly depends on the the way the sub is constructed. Some subs are easier to gain access to than others, but generally changing frequencies can be a bit of a fiddle. I wasn't suggesting any special dispensation for submariners, I just used that as an example because I've only ever organised events for model subs, and as we're restricted to the older lower frequency systems, frequency control is a still a big deal.

Colin Bishop

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2011, 08:16:59 PM »

Quote
Welcome back to the Welsh Wizard, your idea sound interesting. Like you say though it's certainly going to need a lot of marker buoys

Maybe, but if it doubles the amount to which the water can be used it will be worth it. The overall objective for boaters and public alike should be to keep as many boats on the water simultaneously as possible. That way, everyone will be happy.

Colin
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Number 6

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2011, 08:33:56 PM »

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Welsh Wizard

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2011, 09:00:55 PM »

Number 6 Thanks for the Welcome back.   

Thats what we normally use for course markers.What I was thinking of doing was utilising some of these with some palstic piping as this can be easily seen,especially if I spray them red or orange.

As for the straight running using most of the lake this is not true at all,we normally go cross corner so to speak so using the straight running course defined by a series of Markers would keep all the other boats off the segregated area


Dave
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craftysod

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2011, 09:46:37 PM »

Why not use plastic yellow gas piping,just see any gang near who is laying new pipe,we throw away tons of the stuff away each year for recycling.
I would help,but i'm a thousand miles from you  {-)
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Welsh Wizard

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2011, 10:15:44 PM »

What a cracking idea  :-)).....Now I must keep my eyes peeled



Dave
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Shipmate60

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Re: Mayhem 2012
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2011, 10:31:13 PM »

Dave,
That doesn't mean you can go round digging it up again!!!

Bob
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