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Author Topic: Old Merchant Ships  (Read 31729 times)

Bryan Young

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2011, 05:53:27 pm »

I keep on quoting the Bishop today! He mentioned that I was coming to the end of the alphabet. He’s right again. I’ve got nothing beyond the “U”s.
I’d really like a few pics of Watts Watts ships. Especially the later ones, bristling with innovations they were. Inside cabins with picture windows etc. Not bad for a general trading outfit in the late 50s and early 60s.
I must see if I can recall companies that have gone, but I’ve got no records of. Too many to shake a stick at I would think.
Anyway. Another company that wasn’t all that well known was the “United Baltic Corporation”. The name implies their trade area from the UK.
Dredging my memory, there was some kind of cartel operating in this trade. I seem to remember from my Maritime Law lectures that there was such a trade agreement. I may be wrong here, but I don’t think UBC built many (if any) of their own ships. All second hand stuff.
The next 2 pics may illustrate that. The first one (Baltavia) was built for the US “Grace Lines” for their passenger route from the W.coast of the USA to Aussie/NZ. She looks a bit small for a passenger ship on that route.
The 2nd..”Baltrover” looks to me like an ex-“Moss-Hutchinson” ship. They traded mainly to Spain and Portugal. (Had to import our wine somehow). Their ships had names beginning with a “V”. Very pretty. This one is particularly neat and would make a lovely model.
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davidm1945

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #76 on: December 08, 2011, 09:22:04 pm »

Hi All,
   Photographed this one as we were leaving the Sognefjord in September - any ideas?



Dave

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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2011, 06:45:08 pm »

Topic tided up.

A reminder to all Mayhemers to be mindful of copyright issues... I'm too young and slim and good looking to go to Goal!!!  %)


Until I've got a definitive answer, please acknowledge origin of any photos reproduced here on Mayhem.

 Martin  :-))
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"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

Talisman

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #78 on: December 09, 2011, 06:57:20 pm »

Topic tided up.

A reminder to all Mayhemers to be mindful of copyright issues... I'm too young and slim and good looking to go to Goal!!!  %)


Until I've got a definitive answer, please acknowledge origin of any photos reproduced here on Mayhem.

 Martin  :-))


A point i made earlier (within the deleted posts)  Martin,
 There are pics / Photos / reproductions on this forum without credits ...we all walk the thin line!
Personally i have a Lawyer making sure I'm clear to go on a personal project to be sure were free to go... doesn't come cheap i can assure you!
Like i say turning a blind eye occasionally benefits all parties
Regards,
Kim
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dave301bounty

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #79 on: December 09, 2011, 07:16:10 pm »

 Do hope that people read what you have just said Martin ,after all there is a site on that deals with any ship ,s  and if you would like a copy ,they will sell you one for a donation to the Merchant Mariners ,  so its quite straight forward innit ,but then again / / / / keep Mayhem to what its doin and ,helping out model boat people ,no charge.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2011, 07:24:22 pm »

Martin......does that mean that my thread can't continue?
Does it really mean that ALL photos on this site will in future have to be attributed?
Sort of kills things a bit, don't you think?
I appreciate the dilemma, but..........
BY.
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2011, 08:14:10 pm »

Topic tided up.

A reminder to all Mayhemers to be mindful of copyright issues... I'm too young and slim and good looking to go to Goal!!!  %)

Until I've got a definitive answer, please acknowledge origin of any photos reproduced here on Mayhem.

 Martin  :-))


It is for that very reason that you would not go to gaol here in OZ, not to mention the overcrowding and cost of keeping you there.  ok2 ok2 ok2 %) %) %)
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Bryan Young

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #82 on: December 10, 2011, 03:34:57 pm »

As you may have gathered, until “things” get resolved I’m a bit stymied where posting of pics is concerned. Not with these though.
So a very brief run through the design changes of Cable Repair ships from 1916 to the mid 1960s.
Starting with the “Monarch”. Built by Swans in 1916. This photo has been reproduced in various publications, but the same picture was held aboard “Norseman” as a reminder of “what can happen”. Although built for and operated by the GPO in the days before most of the cable companies amalgamated into what became Cable and Wireless, her design was fairly typical of her type.
What happened? She was shelled by an American destroyer killing all the crew that were on deck. Then as now?
But compare the design with that of “Lady Dennison Pender” built only 2 years later. Although it’s a really grotty photo, design development is evident. I served on this ship for over a year until she was withdrawn from service in around 1962/3. (she became worryingly unseaworthy….I explain about that in my Nautical Strange but true thread).
Then came “Mirror” and “Norseman” built by John Brown in 1923. A distinct family resemblance, but may improvements on the LDP design.
The basic design stayed much the same until after WW2 when “Stanley Angwin” and “Edward Wilshaw” became improved on “Recorder” built on the Tyne in 1954.
The next big improvement was with the design and build of “Retriever” and “Cable Enterprise” around 1964. Both these ships won the “ship of the year” award. Although the family resemblance remains, these 2 ships were purpose built to maintain the then new telephone cables (as opposed to “telegraph” cables).
I hope this is going to be only a short interlude before “normal” service can be resumed!.
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Norseman

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #83 on: December 19, 2011, 01:08:47 am »

Hi Bryan

I would love your thread to continue, but only if you feel you could.

Regards Dave
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #84 on: December 19, 2011, 01:20:50 am »

Dave,

Think we may have to wait, pending a reply to Martin's post, regarding definitve answer, see above.<:( <:(
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Norseman

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #85 on: December 19, 2011, 02:12:34 am »

Topic tided up.
Until I've got a definitive answer, please acknowledge origin of any photos reproduced here on Mayhem.
Martin  :-))

Hi, but doesn't that mean say where you got it from
'source internet page x' or source magazine x' or even 'source ancient postcard/photo and unknown' ?
I'm not being obtuse - but that's how I read it. I'm always willing to be corrected though?

There's currently a thread I am interested in about couplings, does this mean that a photo of
a Huco coupling has to be acknowledged? or what about a photo of a blue chinese esc?

Sorry - I honestly don't want to do a soapbox post, so ok, wait and see is the order of the day.

Seasons Greetings to All, Dave

Regards Dave
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Bryan Young

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #86 on: December 19, 2011, 12:54:54 pm »

Dave, I should have some good news on this subject in the New Year. Bryan.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2011, 01:59:16 pm »

There is no 'definitive' answer - it all turns upon the circumstances and so you have to exercise a bit of commonsense or judgement. Usually there is no problem in reproducing an image just to make a point on something like an Internet Forum. Should there be an objection from a legitimate copyright holder then the image can simply be removed.

I often provide scans of old Model Boats articles to people looking for specific information. These articles might be twenty years old and while the copyright presumably now lies with MyHobbyStore they no longer have any practical interest in it, nor do they make it it available on request. On the other hand I would not do this in respect of articles in recent issues where MHS are offering the material for sale as back issues.

It can also depend on the attitude of the copyright holder. If you reproduce an advert for an item saying how much you like and recommend it then there is very unlikely to be any objection. If, on the other hand you reproduce the advert and say what a lot of rubbish it is and don't buy it at any price then you might find there would be an objection to using their image.

I can't see any problems in what Bryan is doing on this thread but one of the photos he posted is currently being offered for sale by the copyright holder and I merely pointed this out.

I don't think this is a subject to get too hung up about but people should be aware of the general background. Sometimes the copyright holder does object and is legally within their rights to do so.

Colin
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Bryan Young

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #88 on: February 15, 2012, 04:54:38 pm »

I recently came across this small hardback book published by Swan Hunter & Wigham-Richardson. It's a real little gem, published in 1906 ...that is more or less dated by a graph showing the "estimated" date of the Mauritania launch. As usual, most of the detail behind the photos (re-sized from over 1mb) is on the text pages of the book(let). Being over 110 years old, I guess that copyright rules don't apply! The entire book only takes up 24mb so I'm quite willing to either transmit or send CDs.
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Norseman

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #89 on: February 15, 2012, 05:06:28 pm »

Hi Bryan

Nice to see one of my favorite threads revived  :-)
I quite like the SS Princess Victoria.

Dave
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Bryan Young

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #90 on: February 15, 2012, 06:35:17 pm »

"Victoria"....interesting. Take away the funnels and put a beam engine in place. Then stick on a couple of big side wheels. Then you have what (to me) looks like a recent ancestor of "Victoria". Such is evolution I guess. I suppose CPR ran these "boats" both up and down the St.Lawrence and aound the Great Lakes...looks big enough.
Thanks for your comments.....I do have a bunch more photos...but as you know, I'll have to be a bit "picky" as to what I can post.
Regards. Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #91 on: March 08, 2012, 04:18:41 pm »

Rooting through my “archives” the other day I came across a few little books I’d totally forgotten about.
The first one is about British general cargo ships published (I think) in the late 1950s. I was a young and keen cadet at the time and I used to wander around the various docks I found myself in. London, Liverpool, Glasgow etc. and use the book much as trainspotters used to do, and “check off” the ships I saw. Seems a long ,long time ago now.
Over the next few days I’ll attempt to post photos from the book…..for details of the ships and colour schemes you’d need to peruse the book, which I’ve put on a CD: therefore available to anyone who wants a copy.
Looking at the photos from a 2012 perspective….oh, boy….what could I have done if digital cameras had been invented back then!
I hope you enjoy looking at what was our Merchant Fleet in the 1950s.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #92 on: March 08, 2012, 04:46:31 pm »

Last of todays batch.....
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brianB6

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #93 on: March 09, 2012, 02:47:44 am »

Worth modelling. O0
Not like todays boxes. :((
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Norseman

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #94 on: March 09, 2012, 02:57:38 am »

Quite agree
Kypros appeals

Dave
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pugwash

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #95 on: March 09, 2012, 03:25:23 am »

We regularly saw the Palm Line ships travelling the west African coast - but until I googled them I did not realise the line was founded and owned by
Unilever originally to bring palm oil back to make soap at Port Sunlight ( also used in the making of margarine)
Great pictures Bryan

Geoff
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Norseman

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2012, 03:40:29 am »

We regularly saw the Palm Line ships travelling the west African coast

....... and I only got to see them on the Mersey - you lucky boy.
http://www.oceanlinermuseum.co.uk/Palm%20Line%20history.html
Cuppa coffee and a quick read Geoff.

Dave
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pugwash

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #97 on: March 09, 2012, 03:57:26 am »

Thanks Dave but just spent the last few minutes reading that link - an interesting history and usual sad demise for british shipping lines

Geoff
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Bryan Young

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #98 on: March 09, 2012, 02:15:54 pm »

Another batch. Slightly different format, so I hope they are clear enough.
One thing that strikes me is that for such humble run-abouts is how neat and well maintained most of them are.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Old Merchant Ships
« Reply #99 on: March 09, 2012, 02:24:57 pm »

I may as well crack on with this thread (now that it's started to rain again).
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