Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: deck fastenings  (Read 11869 times)

boatmadman

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,721
  • Location: South Cumbria
deck fastenings
« on: March 23, 2007, 07:53:19 PM »

Hi,

I am about to start laying the deck on my drifter. can anyone tell me the best way to simulate the deck bolts please?

I tried pen on the wood, but it bleeds.

I have a successful method of 'caulking' between the planks, but the 'bolts' have me baffled!

Ian
Logged
if at first you dont succeed.....have a beer.....

HS93 (RIP)

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,949
  • I cannot spell , tough
  • Location: Rainhill UK
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2007, 07:56:05 PM »

what scail are you doing the boat at??  so we know what size we have to work with.. Peter
Logged

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,894
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2007, 10:27:44 PM »

Hi,

I am about to start laying the deck on my drifter. can anyone tell me the best way to simulate the deck bolts please?

I tried pen on the wood, but it bleeds.

I have a successful method of 'caulking' between the planks, but the 'bolts' have me baffled!

Ian
The bolt heads are covered with a wooden plug to blend in with the deck. No useful purpose would be served by doing this  at a modelling scale.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,006
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2007, 02:05:49 AM »

The bolt heads are covered with a wooden plug to blend in with the deck. No useful purpose would be served by doing this  at a modelling scale.

If you did want to do this, then perhaps you could try:
Take a very small bore brass/copper tube and sharpen the end a little.
Tap it into the deck surface to make a circular indent, which would simulate the join around the plug.
Then weathing it a little.


If you think the bolts may have been countersunk and not covered you could use a brass rod (cut square) to make a small round indent, and weather the indent with a dark wash.


Just a thought ???. I dunno what I am talking about. I have no idea what a working boat deck would be like, but I can guess. ;D


Just a thought,
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

RickF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 918
  • Black, white and buff - not grey!
  • Location: Norfolk UK
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2007, 09:52:38 AM »

I think Tiger's first idea is the best. A bit of "artistic" weathering to make some of the "plugs" more prominent should do the trick, but most should be almost unnoticeable. To be super-authentic, you could leave one or two out and show the bolt head, if the scale is big enough.

Rick
Logged

John W E

  • I see no ships !!
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,504
  • Location: South shields
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2007, 10:02:50 AM »

hi there, boatmadman

Have you any pictures of the actual deck that you are trying to make?  Not wanting to throw the cat amongs the pigeons but not only were wooden plugs used to cover the bolts in deck planking, but also boiling pitch was sometimes poured over the top of the bolt, especially on work vessels where the deck took some hammering and the deck planks were frequently replaced.

aye
john e
bluebird
Logged

boatmadman

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,721
  • Location: South Cumbria
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2007, 07:34:39 PM »

Hi,

It would appear that the deck bolts were covered in pitch, so I am looking for some way of simulating this.

Thanks

Ian
Logged
if at first you dont succeed.....have a beer.....

John W E

  • I see no ships !!
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,504
  • Location: South shields
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2007, 07:41:29 PM »

Hi ya there Ian, boatmadman,

what scale are you building?  because, I am thinking, you know the little brass building pins we use for planking a hull, well...some of them (the very tiny ones) but it would be a tedious job knocking them all in on your deck.  Or, you could us the dressmaking pins - cut the head off the top of the pin and use the top of the pin.   The other way, I wonder, if you satin varnish the deck first say with one coat of varnish and then try with the pen to see if it still bleeds.

lets know how you manage.

I am still thinking .....  :D

aye
john e
bluebird
Logged

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,006
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2007, 06:15:38 AM »

there is a little tool you can get for pushing panel pins into softwoods.
It looks like a small crewdriver but the shaft is hollow.

Pop the pin in side and push.

If you wanted to simulate it being sunk you could then use an oversized centre punch. This would punch is in and leave a larger recess that you could fill with a black wash to simulate pitch.

Just a thought
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

Captain Anonymous

  • Guest
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2007, 09:37:34 AM »

The other way, I wonder, if you satin varnish the deck first say with one coat of varnish and then try with the pen to see if it still bleeds.

Bluebird, Thats what I do when I do my planked deck. ;) ;)
Logged

DougMaz

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Location: wollongong n.s.w. oz
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2007, 12:49:53 PM »

Hi Boatmadman,   I used a centre punch to sink the hole then mix black water paint with PVA woodworking glue and dip a tooth pick in it then dab the black glue in the centre punch hole it looks like black pitch good luck. Dougmaz.
Logged
DougMaz

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,006
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2007, 02:07:03 PM »

mix black water paint with PVA woodworking glue

Hi Doug
Do you mean powder paint?
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

DougMaz

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
  • Location: wollongong n.s.w. oz
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2007, 12:29:32 PM »

Hi tigerTiger,Any black paint you can wash the brush in water.  Paint from a kids paint box,Paint you slap on a wall,Yes powder paint, I use vandike Cristal's. Dougmaz.  Where did you get TigerTiger from??
Logged
DougMaz

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,006
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2007, 12:53:56 PM »

Where did you get TigerTiger from??

A rude schoolboy version of one of a poem, Tiger tiger burning bright

Came about as a rapid response to being barred on another site for telling the moderator he was over reacting. This was to someone elses post. I was not alone and that Ed is not longer with that website.
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

RickF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 918
  • Black, white and buff - not grey!
  • Location: Norfolk UK
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2007, 01:49:38 PM »

TT,

I love poetic parodies - any chance of sharing that one? Here's one which may strike a chord with anyone who's been "East of Suez".

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright. In the NAAFI, every night
Logged

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,006
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2007, 01:54:21 PM »

It has more to do with creeping into the jungle for a shovel recce
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

Shipmate60

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,257
  • You bark - I will bite!!!
  • Location: Fareham
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2007, 11:05:44 AM »

Try using a soft pencil in a scrap piece of wood, then varnish deck to seal in.
It should work on the deck if the pencil is blunt.

Bob
Logged
Officially a GOG.

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,894
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2007, 11:45:03 PM »



Just consider a moment. A Plank is about 5" wide and is fastened to the underdeck with 2 (brass) bolts. The wooden plugs are not much more than 1.5" in diameter. They are (when made by a good shipwright) made in the way beer barrel plugs are made. i.e.slightly tapered, hammered in and smoothed off. In over 40 years at sea I have NEVER seen "caulked" plugs. In fact, after a few years usage and scrubbing down it is very hard to even spot them. Don't ruin an otherwise good model by adding things that cannot be easily seen even on the real ship.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,006
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2007, 04:06:03 AM »

I have been on small fishing vessels where you can see them. These boats are about 40 ft or less.
Perhaps the plugs have fallen out.

All these boats were family run fishing boats and very neglected.
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

John W E

  • I see no ships !!
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,504
  • Location: South shields
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2007, 10:28:37 AM »

Tiger Tiger and anyone else interested

When you are building a model of a working vessel - especially fishing vessels - bear in mind the real vessels are very hard working vessels, especially fishing boats.  They have to earn their keep so, shall we say, any fishing vessel that is tied up against the quayside, isn't earning its keep.

The decks on these vessels, being hard worked, are 9 times out of 10 repaired in a hurry, so, when the deck fittings are replaced - they are normally repaired and replaced in the time that the vessel is discharging its cargo.    Most of the time, its a case of make do and mend.    This is much the case with decking on fishing vessels - from say 20 foot up to the factory fishing vessels.  So, you may often see fishing boats with decks which have pitch on top of the plank holding bolts.

Modern larger fishing vessels now are all steel constructed along with their decks.  If you have a close look at them, where the actual area for trawling gear is operated on the decks, you will often find welded patches.  There are often also multicolour patches of paint where it has been repaired.

To get some facts right:

You never use brass or bronze fastening bolts through steel on decks to hold deck planks down.  They are made of galvanised steel.

Reason:  Electrolytic salt water corrosion between the two metals.

This is also the reason that on some steel ships and boats you have the zinc anodes welded around the stern of a ship when she has a bronze propeller.

aye
John E
BLUEBIRD









Logged

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,894
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2007, 11:02:37 PM »

TT,

I love poetic parodies - any chance of sharing that one? Here's one which may strike a chord with anyone who's been "East of Suez".

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright. In the NAAFI, every night
Sounds like the ANZACS again.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

Bradders

  • Guest
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2007, 09:32:27 AM »

Sorry could you enlighten me to what the ANZACS is ?

Bradders
Logged

Bunkerbarge

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,359
  • Location: Halifax, UK
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2007, 09:33:47 AM »

I think everything here depends upon how you want to model your particular subject.

I have been at sea now for over thirty years and never seen teak decks that did not have the fastenings plugged.  However I have always sailed on cargo ships and passenger ships.

Fishing vessels do not have the luxury of the same levels of maintenence of these ships though so repairs could be anything from a blob of caulking to nothing.

If you wanted to make your fishing boat as a relatively new, well looked after or fresh out of a refit she would probably have nicely finished decks and you would definately not be able to distinguish the plugs.

If you wanted to make a heavily weathered boat after a hard winter or many years service then she would almost certainly have some noticeable deck repairs in evidence.  Bear in mind though that if you go for this option the boat would also have to demonstrate a high degree of weathering including damage to deck wood, bent steelwork, heavy rusting, damaged paintwork etc etc.

If it was me I really don't think the effort required is going to be worth it unless you really want a heavily weathered model.
Logged
"Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack, Butting through the Channel in the mad March days"

anmo

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 300
  • That's unpossible!
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2007, 10:45:49 AM »

Sorry could you enlighten me to what the ANZACS is ?

Bradders

Long before you were born son, Australia & New Zealand Armoured Corps.
Logged
caution, may contain traces of nuts .....

RickF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 918
  • Black, white and buff - not grey!
  • Location: Norfolk UK
Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2007, 07:10:50 PM »

Thats right Anmo, but it wasn't them. It was the RAF.

Rick
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up