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Author Topic: deck fastenings  (Read 11877 times)

DickyD

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2007, 07:13:21 PM »

Sorry could you enlighten me to what the ANZACS is ?

Bradders

Long before you were born son, Australia & New Zealand Armoured Corps.
Australia and New Zealand Army Corps.
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boatmadman

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2007, 08:43:32 PM »

Thanks for the comments fellas,

Ian
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Bradders

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2007, 11:31:43 PM »

Thank you gents, I was following the post up-to that point, thought I had missed something.

I find everyones views fascinating on this subject and just to throw another angle on it I always find scale details difficult depending on which period in a boats life you are modelling e.g should it be shiny and new like it just left the dock, or should it be as it enters dock after a sortie or indeed just before it goes to the great boatyard in the sky ? this can often have a massive effect on how it should look and what details etc are visible, but thats probably another post  :)
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Colin Bishop

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2007, 11:44:46 PM »

I think it is a matter of personal choice Bradders. Some people like 'em pristine, others prefer them weathered. Both are right. As for me, I aim for pristine but somehow a bit of weathered seems to creep in along the way - must be painting over the dust that does it!
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boatmadman

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2007, 04:38:06 PM »

Hi,

Thanks for the comments, i think I will go down the route of after first re-fit!  ;)  Sounds like a good excuse for not perfect but pretty good!

Ian
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Bryan Young

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2007, 06:58:32 PM »

Tiger Tiger and anyone else interested ......
To get some facts right:
You never use brass or bronze fastening bolts through steel on decks to hold deck planks down.  They are made of galvanised steel.
Reason:  Electrolytic salt water corrosion between the two metals.
This is also the reason that on some steel ships and boats you have the zinc anodes welded around the stern of a ship when she has a bronze propeller.

aye
John E
BLUEBIRD

Sorry matey but you are 100% wrong. Brass bolts were the norm. I still have some. Steel and aluminium together I would agree with.Brass? No problem.I sailed with these methods of fastenings and they just stay "put", no corrosion and no interaction with steel. With regard to the notion that the wooden plugs were sealed with pitch , that would only happen if the plugs were of the wrong size. A properly equipped ship would always have a sack-full of plugs and the "chippy" would choose which ones to replace and then hammer them into place. A good lesson for the cadets to learn. "Real" ship construction is a many facited subject and should be approached with much caution by those with only theoretical knowledge.
Building a model to reproduce the "real thing" brings up the problem of just where do you stop. At 1:48 plug covers would be less than 1/32nd of an inch. Even a pencil line would be out of scale. And when you consider that the bolts (and plugs) were fitted in pairs the subject answers itself.
Anyone considering laying a "proper" planked deck should spend their time more productively working out the "shift of butts", otherwise it is as productive as painting the eyeballs of crew figures at 1:100 scale.
BY
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omra85

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2007, 09:42:19 PM »

1st Neighbour "I thought he said he builds MODEL boats?"
2nd Neighbour "I don't care WHAT he builds, but if he keeps blocking the street every Sunday, I'm going to have a word with him!"

Have you still got it, John?

Danny
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John W E

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2007, 09:50:33 PM »

here is a picture of my boat which I built in my garden (so you see I dont only make model boats  :D) - by God with your statement omra 85 you dont know how far off the truth you are - boat now floating in Amble (I had to sell her) along with 150 years of family boatbuilding and repairing skills.

aye
John
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anmo

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2007, 09:56:02 PM »

Must have been a big boatbuilding operation John, if there were 150 of you working there, or was it 75 ? (just two years experience each......)
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John W E

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2007, 09:57:24 PM »

Hi there Anmo, just me, meself and my old dad, and the 150 years comes in with the family tradition of boatbuilding and repair  :D

aye
john e
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Colin Bishop

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2007, 10:04:07 PM »

And flying boats too...
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John W E

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2007, 10:10:21 PM »

Colin Admiral, when you are watching 4 and half ton being lifted in air over house roof and tree - you know the nappy lining you mention in another topic - well you wish you wear about 8 pairs of them...as your mind calculates have we enough insurance in case it drops through neighbours roof, what happens if it knocks tree over and will boat fit on lorry.....Police shut road off only for an hour and a half... ;D

aye
john e
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Colin Bishop

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2007, 10:18:12 PM »

John, I can imagine! Down where my boat is they have been craning catamarans over the sea wall into the harbour all day. Monohulls have been going into the holding pond until the tide came up and they could lower the sill gate. One rather expensive boat made a dash for the gate without casting off all the steadying lines and was literally brought up short and hit the concrete gate edge with an eye watering crunch. Good start to the season. Me? I've just been spreading antifouling over my bottom.... Ache all over.

Colin
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DickyD

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2007, 10:20:15 PM »

1st Neighbour "I thought he said he builds MODEL boats?"
2nd Neighbour "I don't care WHAT he builds, but if he keeps blocking the street every Sunday, I'm going to have a word with him!"

Have you still got it, John?

Danny

I think I'm missing something here. How did you know John had a boat 1/1 when he posted after you Danny ?? ???
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DickyD

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2007, 10:23:07 PM »

John, I can imagine! Down where my boat is they have been craning catamarans over the sea wall into the harbour all day. Monohulls have been going into the holding pond until the tide came up and they could lower the sill gate. One rather expensive boat made a dash for the gate without casting off all the steadying lines and was literally brought up short and hit the concrete gate edge with an eye watering crunch. Good start to the season. Me? I've just been spreading antifouling over my bottom.... Ache all over.

Colin
Where do you keep your boat Colin ?

Richard ;)
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Colin Bishop

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2007, 11:00:01 PM »

Where's this then?  ;D ;D ;D
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2007, 12:09:57 AM »

What happened to Deck Fastenings?
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DickyD

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2007, 09:30:00 AM »

Where's this then?  ;D ;D ;D


That'll be Emsworth then.
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Faraday's Cage

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2007, 09:43:45 AM »

Quote
What happened to Deck Fastenings?

I think Coilin has got himself lost. :-\

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John W E

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2007, 09:57:35 AM »

hi all, Dicky I removed my first topic off this thread myself because I had second thoughts - some members of the forum must have seen it though.  The top & bottom of my removed posting was 'On this forum there are a lot of people with a good lot of experience of various things.  Some people must learn a lesson to respect this and not think they are 100% right and 100% wrong MATEY!'

now shall we all get back on course for deck fittings via Admiral Colin's yacht.

aye
john e
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Colin Bishop

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2007, 10:05:53 AM »

Sorry folks, I was led astray by the other reprobates!

Going back to deck fastenings I think we've all learned more than we ever dreamed possible about these fixings.

To summarise, it seems to me that:

1. On a well maintained vessel they would be invisible under the plugs
2. On a badly maintained vessel with the plugs missing they would be virtually invisible at most scales, and vey small at the larger ones. They would be smaller than rivet heads for example.
3. If you are depicting the vessel as in need of maintenance then the rest of it should be in keeping i.e. dents in the hull, bent fittings, rusty patches everywhere etc. There is a good example of this ashore at the place I keep my boat, a small and very battered steel fishing vessel - I'll get a photo next time I see it.
4. As Bryan says, it's probably more important to get the planking butt lines in correct sequence to aid authenticity.

Colin
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RickF

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2007, 12:04:26 PM »

Carrying the butt lines theme a little further, where I have been unable to get genuine evidence from the prototype, I have used the following rough and ready system:

Commercial and/or smaller craft - three butt repeat at six foot spacing (18 foot planks)

Warships - four butt repeat at five foot spacing (20 foot planks)

Perhaps the forum's experts would like to comment?

Rick
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Bryan Young

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2007, 07:29:26 PM »

Thank you gents, I was following the post up-to that point, thought I had missed something.

I find everyones views fascinating on this subject and just to throw another angle on it I always find scale details difficult depending on which period in a boats life you are modelling e.g should it be shiny and new like it just left the dock, or should it be as it enters dock after a sortie or indeed just before it goes to the great boatyard in the sky ? this can often have a massive effect on how it should look and what details etc are visible, but thats probably another post  :)
Why not just leave the model to weather naturally over the years...thats what real ships do after all.
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Bryan Young

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2007, 07:53:35 PM »

Carrying the butt lines theme a little further, where I have been unable to get genuine evidence from the prototype, I have used the following rough and ready system:

Commercial and/or smaller craft - three butt repeat at six foot spacing (18 foot planks)

Warships - four butt repeat at five foot spacing (20 foot planks)

Perhaps the forum's experts would like to comment?

Rick
Cannot comment on "small" craft, but on ships the shift of butts is generally 3 or 4. Either up to the owners or the general practise of the building yard. on "my" ships the length of a plank was between 20' and 30'....depends on what timber is used and where it comes from.
Older Warships could have planks up to around 9" wide, but nowadays I think between 4" and 5" seems to be the norm. I am not really sure what you mean about 5 or 6 foot spacings as a 4 shift would be only 2' or so. Please enlighten me.
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Shipmate60

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Re: deck fastenings
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2007, 09:34:46 PM »

Also bear in mind that Working Vessels, even when refitted are painted over bent and bashed steelwork, chipped paintwork, etc.

Bob
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