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Author Topic: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING  (Read 14667 times)

Netleyned

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2011, 06:07:17 pm »

At 27 MHz the full wavelength is around 10 Metres
At 40 MHz                                            6 Metres
At 2.4GHz a couple of inches max
Running a micro coax up a carbon pole to gain height will attenuate the signal.
My yachts on 2.4 with the aerial at water level have no problems even running the other side
of a large fountain and even through it with no loss of signal.
Once you power through the two or three breakers to the swell behind them
it may be ok

Keep us posted

Ned
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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2011, 09:02:43 pm »


Hedgerow Pete.

Could you not be so aggressive against the members please. We are, after all, trying to help you. Everybody has a different slant on your problems and we are doing our best.

Ken  (moderator)



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Welsh Wizard

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2011, 09:12:03 pm »

OH why OH why is this getting to be ANOTHER dig at you dig at me tirade.
Hedgerow Pete what really mystifies ME is the distance you want to control a model at.I sail on a lake that is 3 miles long 3/4 wide all I use is a futaba 2.4 set,my eyesight is excellent and I sail Marbelhead yachts now at anything over 200 yds distance there is no way on earth can you deduce which way that yacht is travelling.The Mast is 6 feet tall with white sails and the hull is bright red.If you want to sail further than that your Model will have to be huge for you able to see it.

Dave
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The long Build

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2011, 09:22:40 pm »

Where does the idea that all 2.4 should be burnt, as far as I am aware a lot of forum members use them !! %%
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MikeA

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Daemon

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2011, 09:54:52 pm »

That's a good question, actually - what ARE you sailing?

Dave.
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MikeA

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2011, 10:05:39 pm »

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Shipmate60

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2011, 10:15:08 pm »

hedgerowpete,
If you want to produce one of these bait boats why not make one with a similar spec.
The 1 in the video runs on 40 Mhz and is brushless electric.
Despite all the development costs of this boat why change them.
As has been said an I.C. Engine requires a large volume of air to run so is it really a good idea to have air inlets and a hot exhaust exit to go through breakers like in the video.
The choice is yours of course but if you think you get better information about specialist boats on a car forum take your advise from there.
But
You have a full spec in the advert for the boat why change it if that is what you want.
It would have helped if you had been more specific about what you wanted as instead of talking in generalities information could have been tailored to your specific needs not just generic questions.
If you go on to the model car forum I wish you well and you will always be welcome on Mayhem.

Bob
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hedgerowwpete

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2011, 08:02:04 am »

well it seems i have upset and offended people, very sorry i am , now you know how it feels,  again apoligises i did start this thread in the hope of being a sticky for new bies like me to learn from i did not expect it to become a slanging match, i would have rather had  this thread returned to its orginal ideal of a teaching base rather than where it has gone now. I doubt it now, so again many many apologises etc etc pete
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Circlip

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2011, 02:10:45 pm »

One of the problems with todays stupid education system is that for the questions on the test papers, there is a multiple choice answer system.  :D  The required  answers, on this posting, seem to have encompassed so many tangential subjects, the term "There are no stupid questions" has been disproved. {:-{  Spoken and written English have been deteriorating at a rapid pace since the introduction of mobile phones,  %% it now seems that basic comprehension has done so at the same rate due to forums like this. :((

  Don't shoot the messenger, If the answers given don't answer the question you think you've asked, perhaps you have asked the wrong question. O0

   Regards   Ian.
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Daemon

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2011, 03:38:15 pm »

Hmmm, I wouldnt say people have been offensive - quite the opposite in fact, they have merely responded to your comments about using an IC engine in rough water by saying that its going to be very difficult, if not impossible, for you to get it to work without cutting out as it goes through the first wave. People here arent "Anti IC" its simply that the majority of boating lakes have a strictly no IC law imposed on them by the owning counties/councils/group due to the hazard of oil/fuel spills.

I would suggest using SLA batteries, or maybe even LifePo4's if you have the cash, with an electric motor (or 2, depends on how many props), and use scotchkote to protect electrical components against water ingress.

Hey, if you feel people who purposefully keep their rc models away from water are more authorative about what will work int he surf, then by all means, talk to the guys on your rc car forum. Just remember that if you do end up needing help from fellow boaters, its best not to burn the bridge as you leave.

Good Luck!

Dave.
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2011, 04:13:53 pm »

Is this a bait boat ? Or is it for towing lines out and being used as a small fishing boat. as I would have thought it would be usless dropping bait in rough water.

Peter
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MikeA

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2011, 05:24:10 pm »

its a bait boat. hes planning on running out anything up to 500 meters beyond the breakers etc to plant the bait. For a novice builder hes certianly jumped into the deep end (no pun intended) of boat building.

What you are attempting pete is something that even experienced boat builders wouldnt dare, or at least not expecting the boat to come back. Boat building has a very steep and unforgiving learning curve, the slightest foul up can result in a complete loss of your boat, relying on chance and good luck will 9 times out of ten result in tears. There are some things that can only be learnt threw personal experience it cannot be trained, but only warned in advance. You have to plan for the worse case scenario, such as with the IC for instance if it decides to cut out 200m from the shore then by bye boat, If it loses signal and drifts out to sea bye bye boat. It sounds negative i know but in reality and any of these experience builders will tell you that its the silly things that cause the problems and not preparing for them has the worst results. 

Im sorry if i offended you in anyway. Nobody here wants you to fail and were just trying to steer you away from things that will compremise/risk your succes.

Mike
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hedgerowwpete

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2011, 06:36:07 pm »

Is this a bait boat ? Or is it for towing lines out and being used as a small fishing boat. as I would have thought it would be usless dropping bait in rough water.

Peter

welcome to the deseased thread on second hand equipment, since you have only just joined allow me to for the final time explain the whole lot again from the begining !

i due to a spinal injury am unable to cast at any distance when sea fishing, one solution to this problem is called the " aquacat dingly berry" which is a sea going bait boat, due to its cost of £1500 i wanted to build one similar to it.

the basic spec for the auqa cat is a range of 500metres at sea, a weight of 14 kilos and a strucual size of 300mm by 300mm by 1000mm, the type of the aerial and transmitter is not speced so i did ask which one to use, 25,35, 40,2.5, being a beginer most of the books i have borrowed from the libraries of birmingham do not even mention 2.4Gh let alone explain singal locking and tracking. so i thought i woul dread up about it here, but no one has done that sticky yet.

after  a lot of time reading past articale and threads i decided to join this forum and start to educate myself better.

the first posted question was the use of a petrol style fueled engine or IC. the reasons for this is very simple, batteries, to use this bait boat will need 4 trips per hour and four hours long, at least, the aqua cat uses one battery per trip so that is far to many batteries to carry plus the fishing gear etc etc so the idea of a bucket of fuel  rather than a wheel barrow of batteries and or a generator, every keeps mentioning lipos but not untill my mentor explained them to me did i find out what they were on about, even then we are not that keen on those or any other battery.

so since the few books on ic engines are mainly designed for aircraft means they are designed to run at 2 to 10 thousand rpm, where as a boat prop would be nearer a few hundred so what we would nead is a slow running ic engine, we have decided for the prototype to use electric as it makes the design easier to use, the proper version is to use an ic motor. this will be simple to water cool  and a simple snorkle to vent.

the next question posted  and this thread was supposed to be a question of why, what, where,whom etc about someone buying second hand equipment.

due to this forum not running a mentor system of some such or form, and generaly the negative replys and such like i asked on several other forums that deal with radio control, on one of these i have bean offered a mentoring from a gentleman in northyorkshire, this person used to run model boats but now only does cars, he is open to the idea of sea boats, designs made on the hoof and a general bodge, never once have any suggestion bean knocked back but all have been built on, it was this support i was expecting here but have not found.

someone did mention the ideas of bridges and burning, to say the truth, i only came back to see if any one had posted on this section and on this particular thread, someone asked what i was up to, i replied adding the usual negativity i feel here when on this forum

so starts the slanging  and the previous comments.

as a newwbie wanting guidence and construtive thoughts etc the whole mentor thing is what is needed badly.

on three other forums i would be classed as one of the major posters and on all of them the whole mentor thing is taken very seriously as without the new blood and the continual passing of help and knowledge things start to break down.

someone mentioned earlier that a multipul question comes with mulltipul answers, where as with a mentor there is one and a why we use this one rather than the others, multiple answers to a newbie only confuses me not answers my questions, maybe people with more knowledge than me should remeber these points  and why not add a few beginers stickies covering these points!!
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Shipmate60

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2011, 07:57:11 pm »

Pete,
The first point I would make is that you asked a very general question when you had a specific purpose in mind.
Your questions are rather like should I buy a brand new car or an older higher spec one but leaving out that you really want to use it as a builders van.
As most model boaters sail on ponds, rivers and lakes it is not surprising you got replies about this environment.
Unfortunately this was not what you required as you had a specific use in mind.
In the thread about the low revving you didn't mention any specific requirement for a bait boat.
There are none produced that I know of because they are not suitable on rivers/lakes so not produced.
I consider that if you had asked for advice for building a seagoing bait boat you would have had more focused replies and fewer so more useful.
The answers answered your question but was not of great use to you as you left out the most important information.
The advert on the bait boat you want to replicate gives quite descriptive specifications including what type of motor and radio is used.
Once again you didn't explain why you wanted an I.C. engine till your last post.
No this forum does not operate a "mentoring" system but there are lots of members who offer help by PM, email etc.
I am glad you have found what you want even though it is not on this site.
I wish you well on your project and hope that you can improve the design for your specific use.

Bob
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MikeA

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2011, 10:39:30 pm »

hedgerow pete were still willing to help if you want it.

allow me to clear something up. scale model propellers spin faster than there full size counterpart. a slow tug boat or trawler propeller will turn anything up to 5000 rpm. A fast boat i dont know say a motor torpedo boat the prop will spin up to 15000 rpm. Fast electrics can go stupid up to and beyond 40,000 rpm. 

as far as what speeds you need to run at well {:-{ it will be in the thousands anyway. If you turned a 60mm diameter propeller you would need to running it between 7-10,000 rpm depending on the pitch, but as the pitch of the blades increases so does the load on the engine making it use more fuel. Either way the engine will be putting out about 2 hp.
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2011, 11:08:31 pm »

so it is not a bait boat it is for taking baited lines out to sea and drooping them, why didn't you say in the first place what you wanted to do, because I have never heard of a bait boat being used 500yds of the shore in rolling waves..
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Arrow5

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2011, 08:34:38 am »

www.aquacat.co.za  shows the "Dinglehopper" in operation.  Looks like they have sorted out all of the requirements.  Perhaps the question should have been  "how can I do this cheaper/better".
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2011, 09:14:34 am »

get a MMB sub go out under the waves .

Peter
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Circlip

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2011, 09:22:57 am »

Reply #6 alluded to what he was after.

  Regards  Ian.

 
Quote
The South African company selling the Hook dumper don't seem to have a problem with conventional gear.
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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2011, 12:42:07 pm »

www.aquacat.co.za  shows the "Dinglehopper" in operation.  Looks like they have sorted out all of the requirements.  Perhaps the question should have been  "how can I do this cheaper/better".



Best bit of boating film I've ever seen.  My God, I don't stand a chance with my boats.    O0  {-)  O0

Thanks for putting that up.


ken



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Arrow5

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2011, 01:55:42 pm »

Yes Ken , i thought it was exciting to watch too. Maybe something that could be useful for ocean-going record attempts and cross Channel trips even Loch Ness runs %)  It seems to be part yacht(keel) part trimaran(side sponsons) and part submarine(waterproof).  Powerfull brushless motor, are the "car guys" using brushless ?  How far do the R/C cars go away from the transmitter(handset) and do they get wet ?  I hope  Pete goes ahead and maybe we can all learn something new.  Could be a new aspect to our sport/hobby , without the fishing bit,  surf-bashing .  Good for those close to the sea and for days when weather precludes normal boaty activities.  If Pete still reads this thread can you say how you are progressing. A few hull makers here might be interested in your foam and fibreglass facilities.
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2011, 02:29:01 pm »

Having just come across this thread I think the main problem is that you are not bulding a 'model' boat, but you are getting 'model' boat answers. Watching the vid posted above it is obvious that some 'out of the box' thinking is needed and that can disconcert the traditionalists! Long rang radio, you could try the old Futaba M Series, power output is way higher than more modern sets ( possibly illegally so!). The set would probably need new batteries and replacing the wiring to the board as they suffer from 'black wire' problems due to their age.
Big car blower motor and a 15amp 12v gel battery should provide a few 450 yard round trips before a recharge is needed (2 hours ). Big keel or a giant fast electric self righting thing sticking out the top of the model, suitably brightly coloured would aid stability, and in the latter case, visibility at range. Bolt down submarine style hatch would preclude an air breathing engine, pity really, a big plodding petrol engine would make a great drive for something like this if you didn't have to contend with surf.
Good luck and dont loose faith with the model boating world.
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armc40

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Re: ADVICE FOR SECOND HAND EQUIPMENT PURCHASING
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2012, 08:39:05 pm »

www.aquacat.co.za  shows the "Dinglehopper" in operation.  Looks like they have sorted out all of the requirements.  Perhaps the question should have been  "how can I do this cheaper/better".

Buy yourself a Conoflex Scorpion, Abu 650CT Mag Elite, some 6oz Geminis and some casting lessons       :-))
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