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Author Topic: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.  (Read 18002 times)

Colin Bishop

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2011, 07:00:25 PM »

Quote
As far as the article in Model Boats magazine, I have got most articles that have featured the team in the past and can not pin down this incident.

It predated the PMBDT, it was sometime back in the 1970s! Nothing new under the sun.

Colin
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Liverbudgie

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2011, 08:07:24 PM »

It predated the PMBDT, it was sometime back in the 1970s! Nothing new under the sun.

Colin

This incident happened thirty or so years ago and before JC became editor. The "target" had a "torpedo" fired at it, on impact a small charge of flash powder was supposed to ignite making lots of smoke; the unfortunate thing was that either far to much flash powder had been used or, that some gunpowder had become mixed up with the flash powder though, I suspect, the charge was all made up entirely of the former as the damage to the sturdy "target" was more or less terminal and bits went all over the place.

Well remember the 1st IFOS at Portsmouth and the Olimpia show and the resultant noise, smoke and bits floating in the pond afterwards, as I was covering both.

Returning to the point of this heading. I just don't see the point of destroying something you have built and spent time and money on, it's childish at best.

The risks involved are in my jundiced view just not worth it, there only needs one accident and the whole marine modelling scene will be tarred.   Keep it on the other side of the pondwere they like playing with guns and real ammo.

LB
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Daemon

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2011, 08:37:01 PM »

I'm sorry by I feel like I must reiterate this point:
THERE ARE NO PYROTECHNICS USED.
All damage is to a silkspanned balsa "skin" which is placed over pebetrable "windows" cut into the hull of the boat. These balsa panels can be plugged/patched easily and are generally replaced once a year.

All electronics are scothkoted or encased in a watertight box, and there us usually a floatation device starched to one end of a long spool of wire aatched to the hull to assist recovery in deep water, although most battling us done is water 1 to 3 feet deep.

I think that covers the previous comment...
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geids

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2011, 09:31:36 PM »

Not my cup of tea, however I can't think of anything that would interest kids more than seeing ships sinking each other. Also it's a bit of fun, sometimes I think we can take our hobby a bit to seriously, so as they say "live and let live" A different subject on the site shows some modellers know how to have a bit of fun, re: the duck race.
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CF-FZG

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2011, 11:03:37 PM »

Not my cup of tea, however I can't think of anything that would interest kids more than seeing ships sinking each other. Also it's a bit of fun, sometimes I think we can take our hobby a bit to seriously, so as they say "live and let live" A different subject on the site shows some modellers know how to have a bit of fun, re: the duck race.

Precisely :-))

I totally accept your pints of view, one of the only posts that recognises 'it doesn't appeal to me' but 'let's not stop others having a bit of fun :-))

I was finding the thread quite interesting for similar reasons to you, and then the Elf 'n Snakeys got involved saying how irresponsible it is to use pyrotechnics - WTF are they on about - read the posts about what it's about >>:-(

Too many members of the  'I don't like it so it shouldn't be allowed' brigade involved in this thread, (again!!)


Mark.
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2011, 10:07:47 AM »

This incident happened thirty or so years ago and before JC became editor. The "target" had a "torpedo" fired at it, on impact a small charge of flash powder was supposed to ignite making lots of smoke; the unfortunate thing was that either far to much flash powder had been used or, that some gunpowder had become mixed up with the flash powder though, I suspect, the charge was all made up entirely of the former as the damage to the sturdy "target" was more or less terminal and bits went all over the place.

Well remember the 1st IFOS at Portsmouth and the Olimpia show and the resultant noise, smoke and bits floating in the pond afterwards, as I was covering both.

Returning to the point of this heading. I just don't see the point of destroying something you have built and spent time and money on, it's childish at best.

The risks involved are in my jundiced view just not worth it, there only needs one accident and the whole marine modelling scene will be tarred.   Keep it on the other side of the pondwere they like playing with guns and real ammo.

LB

Glad to hear the incident was years before the display team even formed. The description of the charge make up is enough to make a sensible person wince, of course it did what it did!

If there was anything floating about after our displays at these events it would have consisted of bits of 1/16" balsa and brown parcel tape, hardly 'indescribable'.

'Childish' is what keeps grown men sane, dont deny us that little pleasure!

The risk of 'risks' can sometimes get in the way of the chance of 'sensible' behaviour in us all. I witnessed an incident involving a model of medium speed hit the pondside at the Warwick Show a few weeks ago, the OOD promptly shouted at the owner and his young son, ejecting him from the pond loudly, following a simple error of judgement by the operator. Father and tearful son promptly last seen heading back to their club stand. "The model could have left the pond and hit a member of the public!" not that size of model and not with that power set up. Good PR I dont think. A quiet word would have been the better action in my humble opinion.

We can all be guilty of shouting loudly before engaging brain cells. Most times those proposing an idea have thought it through, including any risks, before moving to the next stage. We do take into account the risks, in this day of 'dont do this, dont do that, it could be dangerous,' we have to...
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miarkaf

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2011, 10:21:23 AM »

Hi Dave

Sounds a great idea and I wish you luck in setting it up. I've often looked at the Aussie setup which seems to be very well run and everyone seems to be having a great time.
Look forward to your first event and would love one day to take part.

Regards

Alan
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bikerdude666

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2011, 10:39:39 AM »

I just don't see the point of destroying something you have built and spent time and money on, it's childish at best.


Really? Anymore more childish than making little boats and sailing them round and round a pond.

I'd be interested in it if it was in the area, and if it didn't cost too much, always liked the idea, thought before about trying to fit 1 of the firing mechanisms from 1 of the RC tanks, but didn't get much further than thinking lol
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Nige52

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2011, 11:51:29 AM »

A member of our club has done precisely that, removed the BB firing mechanism and barrel from a defunct tank and fitted it to the front of one of his grey boats, it works ok, the little yellow plastic balls aren't that impressive though.... {-) {-)
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bat44

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2011, 02:43:29 PM »

hi cf-fzg you seem to be upset that some people find this a bit dangerous or not for them well that is their right to say that as this is an open forum,i do believe the gentleman who started this was looking to see who was and was not interested in this side of the hobby. now as to the pyros this was brought up in some of the posts now no one said that pyro's would be used but if they were to be used care should be taken,  as a member of the PMBDT and one of its safety officers we do know a thing or two about this , and as i said at the end of my post if all the safety side is sorted then go and have fun
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CF-FZG

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2011, 05:57:48 PM »

Hi bat44,

I think I understand your post, it's very hard to read with very little punctuation.

However, I didn't say I was upset 'that some people find this a bit dangerous or not for them' - please read what I wrote.  I was primarily objecting to those who are not capable of understanding some pretty simple statements, especially when the OP repeatedly stated certain things about the safety of these 'guns'.

As for the pyros, I think I made clear my thoughts on those who responded to the subject, obviously the same people I mentioned in italics above.  I do appreciate that pyros and other 'things that can go bang' are dangerous when used incorrectly, (for modelling purposes ok2 - after all they are supposed to be dangerous :}), and also know a little about the safety requirements/distances etc. required for their 'safe' use.


Mark.
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The long Build

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2011, 06:28:44 PM »

Not quite blasting each other out of the water with TNT but still looks like fun  (can I say Fun !.). It looks like they try sink each other by ramming or trying to dip the stearn / bow down into the water to slowly flood it, they also appear tp firing water jets at each other as well( mind you from a previous thread that is probably not allowed either)

Yes its probably a stupid thing to do, but so what, if they enjoy it go for it..

I think a RC Naval Combat Club in the would be fun but I think the Insurance bill might be a tad High even if you could get one..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57GInh50DBE&feature=endscreen&NR=1
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Daemon

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2011, 08:18:58 PM »

The ramming is accidental, there are bb cannons on board that they use.
The jets of water are bulge pumps used to simulate damage control to put off the ships sinking.

Rams are generally against the rules if they cause hull damage.

Dave.
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The long Build

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2011, 08:29:43 PM »

Doh , Should have read the video text..
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bat44

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2011, 08:46:08 PM »

hi cf-fzg if you was not upset then why would you use this  >>:-( as it stands for  >>:-(tickoff
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ben hall

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2011, 10:36:10 PM »

so wait back to the original post  how many people would be interested          and      If you have advice great  , if you have worries fine thanks for worrying  .
But if your going to tell some one that how they want to extend there modeling experiences is stupid........ don't bother 
a mans trash   is another mans gold (you may hate the idea but to someone else its Einstein)
wait for a post to come  up saying   what do you think about  not a post  that says who would be interested in joining my club.                        (hope my punctuation is up to your standard  CF-FZG  :D :-))



                                                                                              >>:-(  kk   >>:-(   :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D
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Daemon

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2011, 10:47:17 PM »

I would like to take a moment to thank EVERYONE on their input, it has helped me to reach the decision that I WILL continue further inquiries into setting up a club in the UK.

Thank you, honestly, for your input, and once again THERE WILL BE NO PYROTECHNICS. ;)
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2011, 11:22:24 PM »

Not quite blasting each other out of the water with TNT but still looks like fun  (can I say Fun !.). It looks like they try sink each other by ramming or trying to dip the stearn / bow down into the water to slowly flood it, they also appear tp firing water jets at each other as well( mind you from a previous thread that is probably not allowed either)

Yes its probably a stupid thing to do, but so what, if they enjoy it go for it..

I think a RC Naval Combat Club in the would be fun but I think the Insurance bill might be a tad High even if you could get one..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57GInh50DBE&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Our club doesn't play like that. Bumper cars is not our game.
The Queen's Own Scale model warship club has been described as a slower more tactical game.
Ships will bump, but people are looking for firing solutions, and also setting up firing solutions for team mates.

It's the reason you will see the first two ships pass each other, because they don't want to be set up by
the following destroyers. Then you see the ships stop, because the skippers are setting up for a quick turn
should the chasing destroyer try to continue past.

Of course you see the following destroyer in the foreground stop also,  because he is wary of getting caught in
a turning gun fight in the following position. More tactics being played out here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgqFogdKGfk
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NickKK

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2011, 01:28:40 AM »

So the airsoft aren't in use in this country ? I run a model tank that fires an airsoft pellets 25m ... Six tanks run around the woods shooting at targets ... And they punch holes in two or three sheets of card targets ... You can get replacement gun units for them ... Can't remember where from but they are quiet cheap  under 20 for a full unit
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Daemon

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2011, 02:25:57 PM »

Airsoft units are unsuitable for a number of reasons:
1. They're electric, as such, they will be rendered useless after the first sink.
2. They're too big, there wouldn't be enough space in the turrets of even the largest battleships to fit three of these and barrels.
3. They're electric. Must be said again, as whilst servos and motors can be scotchkoted, the mechanism inside the unit is very susceptible to water.

I know of the units you mean, because I own an rc tank with an airsoft unit, myself.

The weapons used are purpose built using a paintball CO2/HPA tank, with a series of pressure regulators to drop the pressure down to 100psi, where its fed into a copper/pvc accumulator of between 1 and 2 cubic inches, where a solenoid or servo-operated poppet valve releases that stored co2/hpa up into the barrel, where it picks up the bb/steel shot and propels it out the barrel at between 50(for the 6mm, largest calibre) and.. I'm not actually sure what velocity the smallest bb sized shot is fired at, but it still has the same muzzle energy of 1 joule. I could do the calculation, but I don't know the weight of the bb sized steel shot.
Must be steel, lead would risk water polution.

Any further questions?
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triumphjon

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2011, 04:37:03 PM »

100PSI !  having seen the damage a truck tyre can cause at this pressure id not want to see what damage it could do to a person . i think the whole idea of shooting anything from a model is potentially dangerous to all members of the comunity
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Daemon

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2011, 05:10:07 PM »

I think its 100psi, I will have to go over the rules sets(there's about six of them) to check. I think 100psi is the air tank pressure before the regulators drop it down.

There is a lot of rules to minimise crowd danger, ie: no weapons may fire with a positive elevation, limiting both the maximum range and the likelyhood of spectators/participants being hit by off-target shots.
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2011, 05:53:52 PM »

100psi is the max
Co2 pressure in the tank runs as high as 800 psi.
Our guns are individually calibrated and are not allowed to shoot through 2"(50mm) of pink or blue styrene foam insulation.
Most guns will have their pressure regulated below 100 psi to meet that standard.
Putting your hand behind the foam during a gun test is the ultimate trust in your settings. ok2
The volume behind any shot is only 1/2 to 1 cubic inch of volume, which is 1/4800 to 1/600 the volume of a 15" car tire.

Fighting at a private or isolated pond is a necessity,... a requirement.
Even with the guns no higher than "zero elevation", the models will pitch and roll, and the shot skips off the water.
I have seen shot skip off the water and only been able to watch as it bounces up and hits at the chest.

If this scares you, then the game is not for you, if you can imagine the tactics, are able to think through the
firing solutions, hit a target and are excited by the challenge, then setting up a small 1/72nd scale destroyer may be a consideration.

http://queensown.org/index.php

 :-))
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romanjohn

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2011, 08:41:48 PM »

hi krafty kid  i have got that site we were talking about on the phone
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Starting RC Naval Combat club in UK.
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2011, 09:50:53 AM »



http://queensown.org/index.php

 :-))

An excellent website, it covers, in detail, build of models, safety rules, battle rules  and so on. Recommended reading for all the naysayers out there as well as anyone contemplating a similar organisation over here.
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