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Author Topic: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush  (Read 16835 times)

nemesis

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2011, 11:00:17 AM »

Hello, I use a set of discarded shower curtains to form a cubicle on the bench, good luck, practise makes perfect, Nemesis
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derekwarner

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2011, 11:05:04 AM »

Hullo Bob.....looks like a reasonable purchase there  :-))

One thing to remember is that standard tablet bottles from the pharmacy have the same thread size & form as the original airbrush bottles.......... O0 so never throw away your old medicine bottles  >>:-(

This gives you the advantage of using larger volume bottles for larger paint applictions without refilling the little jars.......  %)

Good luck........Derek O0
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oldflyer2

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2011, 11:05:50 AM »

Here is a link to all you ever wanted to know about air brushes and much more ... http://theairbrushforum.com/oldindex.php

Very useful wee gadgets.

Cheers
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bobk

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2011, 02:19:46 PM »

I have re-read the excellent tutorial by 'oldiron' which I now understand much better.  I admit I previously got a bit lost amongst the comparative technicalities whilst seeking what could an airbrush do compared to regular brushes I have been used to.

If I may please ask some further (maybe 'dumb') questions:

a)   Comparisons of paint types are well explained, but what can and cannot be used in combination.  ie: Can I prepare prime and do the basic main areas in acrylics, then when fully dry use Humbol enamels for fine detail work?  Acrylics sound easier to work with and to clean the airbrush with water afterwards, but a very limited range of colours compared to Humbrol for the detail stuff.

b) For a warship, should I paint in either matt or gloss, then spray semi-gloss varnish, to get a realistic finish that is handleable for weekly sailing at the lake.  I have heard gloss paint with semi gloss varnish works well.  In which case what type of varnish and thinners would be best?

c)  What general order of drying times should one allow between stages?  As a guide are we talking hours or days?  Remember I am used to Humbrol tinlets and brushes,
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2011, 02:58:15 PM »


Hi Bob, how quiet / noisy is the compressor?
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bobk

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2011, 03:59:23 PM »

Not too bad Martin, about the same as my electric type pump (I considered adapting that - but no PSI control).  It has rubber cup feet and is sitting on a carpeted floor.  The real dB test will be when I try to use it when my wife is watching TV in the other room  :embarrassed:
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oldiron

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2011, 04:15:49 PM »

Not too bad Martin, about the same as my electric type pump (I considered adapting that - but no PSI control).  It has rubber cup feet and is sitting on a carpeted floor.  The real dB test will be when I try to use it when my wife is watching TV in the other room  :embarrassed:

  Try putting the compressor on a scrap piece of carpet on top of a firm, solid surface such as a work bench. You don't want anything that's going to to drum while the compressor runs. If you have some rubber under padding to put under the carpet scrap it'll stop the compressor from wandering.

John
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bobk

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2011, 04:32:13 PM »

John:  It is on a fully carpetted solid floor, no floor boards. The Workshop is a room that was converted from a garage years ago, concrete underneath. 
Could you please help with my paint types question earlier today.  Sorry to be a pest, but I would like to get some paint next and am unsure as to which types can be used in combination.
Cheers !
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2011, 04:50:50 PM »


The noise will stop when the pressure is up so it won't be on continuously.   (one consolation  %) )


Ken

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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2011, 05:33:42 PM »


I have re-read the excellent tutorial by 'oldiron' which I now understand much better.  I admit I previously got a bit lost amongst the comparative technicalities whilst seeking what could an airbrush do compared to regular brushes I have been used to.

If I may please ask some further (maybe 'dumb') questions:

a)   Comparisons of paint types are well explained, but what can and cannot be used in combination.  ie: Can I prepare prime and do the basic main areas in acrylics, then when fully dry use Humbol enamels for fine detail work?  Acrylics sound easier to work with and to clean the airbrush with water afterwards, but a very limited range of colours compared to Humbrol for the detail stuff.

b) For a warship, should I paint in either matt or gloss, then spray semi-gloss varnish, to get a realistic finish that is handleable for weekly sailing at the lake.  I have heard gloss paint with semi gloss varnish works well.  In which case what type of varnish and thinners would be best?

c)  What general order of drying times should one allow between stages?  As a guide are we talking hours or days?  Remember I am used to Humbrol tinlets and brushes,

a) You can use enamel paints for detail work on top of your acrylic base finishes, but not acrylics on top of enamels, it seems to have trouble bonding to the base colour and will often craze.
b) I would use the gloss colour as a base finish and dull down with varnish afterwards, the gloss finishes will take longer to dry and by my way of thinking, should provide a better bond to the model because of it. If you are airbrushing the varnish on, I would use the Humbrol Satin Cote or Matt Cote with a suitable thinner. Humbrol recommend White Spirits to thin, I usually use a dedicated airbrush thinner for the job  ( we sell one! ). Try a small sample coat first as some members have had problems in the past using this product, however, I have never encountered any problems...draw your own conclusions :-)
C) Drying times, I have recoated as soon as the job becomes touch dry, sometimes three or four coats. However, this will then need at least a couple of days to go off due to the solvents in the multiple layers needing to escape. Best advice would be to allow four to six hours between coats and a couple of days before applying varnish. Make sure you are in a warm dry environment for the varnish, moisture in the air will ruin a varnish coat quicker than that.
 Take your time.
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bobk

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2011, 06:12:37 PM »

Thank you for your detailed reply.  I now know what to get to use in my nice new airbrush.  I will practice first on A4 card, then a sacrificial rigid plastic box, before moving the destroyer into the (shower curtained) fitting out basin.   %)
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2011, 10:44:28 PM »

Not too bad Martin, about the same as my electric type pump (I considered adapting that - but no PSI control).  It has rubber cup feet and is sitting on a carpeted floor.  The real dB test will be when I try to use it when my wife is watching TV in the other room  :embarrassed:

Buy her a you beaut remote with auto volume control  O0 O0 {-) {-)
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Norseman

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2011, 10:56:00 PM »

Hi Bob

Was the ebay seller a one off or did they have more?

Lol - try and recoup some money buy offering fake tan spraying O0 {-)

Dave
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bobk

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2011, 11:53:46 PM »

Was the ebay seller a one off or did they have more?

Not a one off, they say 10 available.  Search "airbrush compressor kit" on E-Bay, and click the one marked 68.
"fake tan spraying ":  Only battleship grey available, but masking up could be interesting   {-)
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funtimefrankie

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2011, 01:17:26 PM »

Lol - try and recoup some money buy offering fake tan spraying O0 {-)

Dave

The wife vetoed that :embarrassed:
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Norseman

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2011, 08:39:54 PM »

Hello, I use a set of discarded shower curtains to form a cubicle on the bench, good luck, practise makes perfect, Nemesis

Hi all

I have to say that I am very moved by the plight of Nemesis. The weather in North Shields must be awful just now, and there he is sheltering behind an old shower curtain on a park bench, but there he is still offering encouragement to other Mayhemmers.  {-)

You are very welcome to stay with me over the x'mas hols Nemesis and I am sure the lads will have a whip round too.

Regards Dave
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irishcarguy

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2011, 07:46:14 PM »

Hi Bob, I have just asked about buying an Air Brush kit & how to use it on here in an another thread, have a look at it, I have had some very positive answers, Mick B.
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2011, 08:01:28 PM »

with regards to "feet" on a compressor I managed to quieten mine down considerably by adding some stick on rubber feet followed by the stick on felt discs you put on the bottom off chairs etc to protect laminate flooring from scratches/marks
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bobk

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2011, 08:38:13 PM »

Yes Mick B, I have been reading that thread with interest.  With this art - to the uninitiated discussion of, say, Scuba Diving - benefits and limits of swimming under water should be covered before going into the fine technicalities of different regulators and rebreathers.  Previous experience should not be assumed.

Essex2visuvesi:  My new compressor has large rubber cup feet, and on a carpet floor it is fairly quiet.  At least quiet enough not to disturb the Other Half in the next room.  It is an AS18K piston type of 1/6 HP.
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bobk

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2012, 03:36:37 PM »

After having spent time preparing parts and sub assemblies for airbrushing, mounting on card or wood blocks etc, I finally got to fire up the new airbrush to try it out, but with mixed results.
I had built a spray booth from rail mounted shower curtains, plus read everything I could online.  Mixed 40% Tamiya Acrylic with 60% Tamiya X20A thinner, and had a session creating dots and lines on a big sheet of card.  OK, but the double action spray pattern was much finer than I expected, about 1cm wide max, and hyper critical on distance.  2 almost no paint goes on, 1 paint runs.

I am sure there should be some other adjustments other than pressing the button for air, and pulling back for amount of paint?  See photo:  The front parts only unscrew for cleaning, and have O rings.  The rear plastic sleeve also unscrews, but whether the needle mounting is adjustable I dont know.  No instructions.


So far I have used two bottles of paint, not even covering the grey primer yet.  Cleaning, as expected, is a lengthy process.

I am sure there is something very obvious I am missing here
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oldiron

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2012, 05:44:16 PM »

After having spent time preparing parts and sub assemblies for airbrushing, mounting on card or wood blocks etc, I finally got to fire up the new airbrush to try it out, but with mixed results.
I had built a spray booth from rail mounted shower curtains, plus read everything I could online.  Mixed 40% Tamiya Acrylic with 60% Tamiya X20A thinner, and had a session creating dots and lines on a big sheet of card.  OK, but the double action spray pattern was much finer than I expected, about 1cm wide max, and hyper critical on distance.  2 almost no paint goes on, 1 paint runs.

I am sure there should be some other adjustments other than pressing the button for air, and pulling back for amount of paint?  See photo:  The front parts only unscrew for cleaning, and have O rings.  The rear plastic sleeve also unscrews, but whether the needle mounting is adjustable I dont know.  No instructions.


So far I have used two bottles of paint, not even covering the grey primer yet.  Cleaning, as expected, is a lengthy process.

I am sure there is something very obvious I am missing here


Bob:

 If you go back to my article on air brushing I believe I cover adjustment on the air brush. In your picture, you have the black tail of the brush removed. You can see a knurled nut holding the needle in place. This nut can be loosened to remove the needle for replacement or to give you a bit more opening at the nozzle of the brush.
 Also air brushes have different types of tips and nozzles available. You can have them for very fine work, right up to very course work. It appears you have a fine needle/nozzle combination installed, try one of the higher flow pair and see how you make out.
  For cleaning, I don't normally pull the brush apart. I run solvent, for the paint I've used, through the nozzle until the spray runs clear. Move the needle in and out while you're doing it to create some disturbance internal to the brush. At the end hold a rag snuggly over the nozzle and blow into the rag. This will cause the brush to blow back and clear any solvent out of the brush.

John
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bobk

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2012, 08:27:40 PM »

John,

Thank you.  I will try that tomorrow after Ive got more paint.  That knurled nut inside the black plastic handle looked like it was to secure the needle assembly.  I will try that.  I have two airbrushes, one 7cc gravity cup and one 22cc suction bottle.  Neither have alternative tips/nozzles, and fittings not appear interchangeable between units.
Looking online the closest photo match is Aerograph.
I will also try the gravity cup one, which does have a knurled nut at the end of the plastic handle, and maybe try a slightly thicker mix of acrylic to thinner. ie:  50/50

Bob
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dougal99

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2012, 03:24:48 PM »

Bob,

in my (limited) experience I have found tha I did not need to thin Tamiya acrylics for spraying. When I did I had runs as you have found.

HTH

Doug
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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2012, 04:40:36 PM »

Perhaps worth practising with some cheaper paint/thinners until you get the knack of controlling the gun, as I know Tamiya stuff isn't cheap.

The advice I as always given was to thin the paint to the consistency of milk, and keep the pressure low, 10-20psi, depending on the brush and the paint being sprayed.

bobk

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Re: Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2012, 06:05:54 PM »

Many thanks everyone, really appreciated.  Perhaps, as mentioned, it might have been better if Id started off with more than quarter of an hour practicing on a big sheet of card before squirting my nice new model.  As you say Tamiya is not cheap, but if I have understood correctly then I will be able to add fine detail by brush in enamel over well dried acrylic, but not the other way round. Hence acrylic which I have never used before, only brushes & enamels.

Some success today !    With my compressor I bought both a top gravity style airbrush as well as a suction jar type one.  The later has a big adjuster knob at the end of the handle.  I used that instead today and it appeared more controllable in terms of spread / distance etc, although it meant mixing the paint first then keep topping up the pot.  I guess I thought the bottom bottle one would be easier, more tippable, and less refilling.  However the gravity version seemed far better for doing larger areas. 

The other difference today was that I only added 3ml of Tamiya thinner to each 10ml Tamiya paint pot, despite Tamiyas advice of 60% to 40% paint.  Much better !  You guys are correct in that it does not need much thinning. 


At least it looks OK, although will need another 4 pots of paint to give it a solid finish. I intend spraying satin varnish over the matt paint later. 
PS:  I did clean it as suggested above, but also strip cleaned it too just to be sure.
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