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Author Topic: ESC problems, I think  (Read 6081 times)

RaaArtyGunner

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ESC problems, I think
« on: December 22, 2011, 03:58:01 AM »

ESC problems, I think

This is a case of the blind leading the blind as I am a relative novice trying to help out a complete newbie by trial and error.
The ESC in photos, of which the Newbie has bought three off, is a Chinese sourced item here is the description

“EL Water Resistant 110A Electric Speed Controller
Model Number: rcps61604
The EL Model 110A ESC allows remote control of boat electric motors from an RC System. When connected with motor, it is capable of supplying up to 110 Amps (forward) or 40Amps (backward) of continuous motor current. Its integrated Battery Eliminator Circuit (BEC) powers the receiver from the motor battery, with automatic cutoff of the motor power to preserve receiver power as the battery becomes depleted. It is small, powerful and waterproof, which can be used for different type of boat.”


The ESC has been installed into a “speedboat” type GRP hull with a typical high pitch 2 bladed prop and 500 type brushed motor.
On its first run the ESC died.

My thoughts, right or wrong?????

Must be pulling more than ESC rating?

Checked ESC it was a BEC, ESC and Receiver battery was also installed. Also noted no fuse installed

RC is 6 channel 2.4 system.

Newbie went away after BEC was made inoperable on new same type ESC. Thanks after reference to this forum and diagrams on ACTION web site and a fuse was also installed.

A quick out of water amp test showed motor was drawing 10 amps well below ESC rating.

Thought maybe ESC, BEC being connected with receiver batteries installed might have caused ESC to die.

The black art is indeed black for me.

So off goes the Novice and comes back, help this ESC has also died and looks damaged same as the first one; case slightly melted and burnt smell.

But the 30 mp fuse, which he installed in fuse holder, power feed from battery didn’t blow.

Could it be that ESC can’t handle the Amps which did not exceed 30 amps because fuse was still intact?

Is that conclusion correct or is there something else amiss.

Even considering Chinese amps I would have thought that the 110 amp ESC should have been able to handle at least 30 amps.

By the way he also had two 7.2volt battery packs connected in parallel. Suggested that he runs with one battery and install a lower strength fuse, 20amp, plus an extra fuse between motor and ESC which is overkill, but can’t hurt.

Suppose it is possible to have faulty ESC but two the same or perhaps a faulty fuse.

Any suggestions or ideas/thoughts of what else to check for would be appreciated.

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Netleyned

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2011, 06:00:05 AM »

First thing to check is that there is enough room in the waste bin for them.
These are the famous or infamous 'Blue' esc's
Over a couple of Amps you will get the Blue Smoke.
There are numerous threads on here decrying them.

Ned

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=33633.0
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 06:49:45 AM »

Ned,

Thank you.

Don't know how i missed that thread, probably because there was no photo identifying the ESC.
They are still on sale and they now also sell 300 amp ones with cooling fans.

Will have to get him  a couple of decent ones.

Thanks again for the link.

Bin job it is  <:( <:( <:( <:(
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 09:56:37 AM »


Sad to say the newbie had bought 5 of these with two now deceased.
As reported elswhere and as per Neils (nhp651) post.
Both have died in forwards mode but reverse still works.
Had opportunity to open one up and burning was evident as per photos posted by Neil in his thread, namely Switching transistor dead.
Looks like definite fault with this type of ESC.
Due to time delays between buying and use, newbie has no recourse except bin the rest.

We should make up a section on the forum for Dud items so buyers can beware.
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Subculture

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 10:23:13 AM »

Get one of these-

http://microgyros.com/speed-control-setup.html

Does what it says on the tin.

Andy

RaaArtyGunner

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 11:21:31 AM »

Thanks Andy :-)) :-))
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2011, 09:53:38 AM »

Update.

After reading all the links and threads about these controllers, sent an email to the HK Hobby shop on behalf of the newbie advising what had happened namely, two controllers died.

Surprisingly got a reply back within 24 hrs apologising and asking for photos and they will look into it.

Told newbie not to hold his breath but you never know, will update when reply received.
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john s 2

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2011, 05:06:26 PM »

The esc seems to have Tamaya plugs. These are not known for their ability to handle high currents.Most lads use Deans style. Sadly another case of Chinese amps. John.
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Netleyned

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2011, 05:16:18 PM »

I have one in a Dickie Tug conversion.
The plugs are chopped off and everything is connected
through 10A choc bloc.
The motor is about a 300 size so not a large current drain.
Around 2A max.
My Grandson will run it to it's death probably.
Then I'll build another  :-)) :-))

Ned
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Tombsy

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2011, 07:35:36 PM »

Usually to disable a BEC if you use a receiver battery you pull the red pin out of the wire from esc to receiver. I don't know if that would have fried it though?
The other possibility is the low voltage cutoff is kicking in too early.
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2011, 09:25:01 PM »

The esc seems to have Tamaya plugs. These are not known for their ability to handle high currents.Most lads use Deans style. Sadly another case of Chinese amps. John.

The Newbie knew enough, more good luck than knowledge, to cut off the Tamiya plugs and use heavy duty deans type Auto plugs, (Mechanic).
Problem could be ESC can't handle all types of motors.
It is also unbranded which could mean they are rejects sold on the cheap????
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2011, 09:32:18 PM »

Usually to disable a BEC if you use a receiver battery you pull the red pin out of the wire from esc to receiver. I don't know if that would have fried it though?
The other possibility is the low voltage cutoff is kicking in too early.

Thanks to this forum and Action web site was able to disable the BEC you mention for the secong hookup which still fried the ESC.

Found this thread thanks to Ned and it is exactly what I saw when both units were opened up.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=32947.0

Haven't connected any of the others as he will now get a different ESC
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malcolmfrary

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2011, 09:35:00 PM »

Looking at the pictures, apart from the extreme unlikeliness of the unit being capable of 110A, I am curious about the small electrolytic dustbin poking out of the side.  Seems like the design needed a bit of post production rethinking.
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2011, 10:15:33 PM »

Looking at the pictures, apart from the extreme unlikeliness of the unit being capable of 110A, I am curious about the small electrolytic dustbin poking out of the side.  Seems like the design needed a bit of post production rethinking.

Malcolm,

If it helps the dustbin is marked "Chengx", with registered mark, 'R' in circle above which I take to be the Brand name and also has 1000uF 16v. marked on it.
Case is black with 3/4 mm wide grey stripe along full length. In center of the grey stripe is a small black outline rectangle.

In need should be able to get some photos taken.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2011, 10:01:28 AM »

I wasn't too bothered about the make of the item - I was just wondering why it was hanging about on the outside.  Most manufacturers manage to design their gear with the components on the inside of the case.
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Netleyned

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2011, 11:50:08 AM »

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dodgy geezer

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2011, 01:18:52 PM »

The sort of problems you get with Chinese electrical kit:

1: Initial design dodgy.  Surprisingly, not too common. The designs may well be lifted direct from Western kit.
2: Component substitution.  Much more common. Cheap items substituted for expensive items. Those large external capacitors might have originally been small high cost items which could fit inside the box. Or the original box might have been bigger. But that should not be a cause for failure...
3: Use of lower spec components.  They use what's cheapest on the market. This will increase failures...
4: Use of faulty components. If a batch of good-spec components has a fault they may well end up on the market at a low cost. Then 3) above applies...
5: Use of 'fake' components. Someone makes a cheap dodgy batch of components and prints a well-known makers name on them. Then 3) above applies...
6: Low-cost manual labour. Some of the workers are good. Some are just learning. Some are "xxxxx" off. Do you feel lucky, or do you want to check the soldering...?   
7: Quality Control. This costs money, and a customer can't see it. Western brand-name companies who manufacture in China run their own Quality Control. If you don't buy a brand-name, Quality Control probably doesn't happen...

So you 'can' get perfectly good cheap Chinese kit - or it can fall apart as it comes out of the box. Depends on too many variables to predict.  :-) :-) :(( :-) >:-o :-) :-) {:-{

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ACTion

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2011, 02:14:31 PM »

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turnigy-marine-180-amp-brushless-boat-esc-/280739080049?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item415d5a6771#ht_1446wt_952
Seems to be the Oriental way of doing things nowadays.
Three caps attached to this one.
Ned
The mind boggles at pushing 180A continuous current through cables which look no thicker than 14AWG (rated at maybe 42A). Those of us who have wired up 30A circuits to mains consumer units will be familiar with the thickness of that cable, yet this circuit uses cable of half that cross-sectional area for allegedly six times the current. Excuse me if I don't believe it.
As for hanging capacitors outside the case, I wouldn't. It looks awful.
Dave M
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Circlip

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Re: ESC problems, I think
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2011, 02:24:33 PM »

Another thing worth noting, and this has been seen many times, are "Dry" solder joints. In the past when Lead was used as part of the content of electronic solders (Good old Ersin Multicore), dry joints were immediately apparent. Some seem to be able to "Repair" X-boxes and the like by sticking the PCB in an oven to Re-flow the board connections, I have repaired a few power supplies by applying an iron to what looked to be sound joints, but on one occasion, the component dropped out of the board and on another, one leg slid out of a "Good" joint, both of which had been working without fault for some time.

  IMHO, the now semi universal use of Leadless solders seems to be a major cause of failures so it may be worth a gentle tug on some of the soldered on bits to check. Another small point is that with the inclusion of Lead in the solder, a certain amount of resiliance is imparted due to the "softness" of the joining material, Tin on its own tends to be more hard.

  Regards   Ian.
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