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Author Topic: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE  (Read 29315 times)

Brian_C

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2007, 09:29:47 PM »

hi john sos 4 puttin me pics on yr topic,,, ;D ;D ;) richard told me to ;)
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DickyD

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2007, 10:14:36 PM »

Dont worry about my buddy John and hijacking his thread as you know he aint a bad bloke.

Beautiful model Brian wished I could do something like that. Come to think of it ,it wouldn't fit in me shed. ???

Richard ;)
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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2007, 10:38:04 PM »

Looks like a very nice build Brian C .
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Brian_C

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2007, 10:29:51 AM »

mornin richard, yer rite john is a goodun, ive known him for years, and makes a crackin model,, ask him to show hms manchester on the forum its a corker,,, oops sos john, yr gonna have 2 now, ;D ;D ;D ;)   nelsons 7ft 5inches, me next ones 8ft 6, and hope it goes in the bloody car ???
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DickyD

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2007, 11:18:08 AM »

OK John lets see your HMS Manchester then.

Richard ;)
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John W E

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2007, 02:24:43 PM »

Hi all, before we get too far off the topic (and Im not letting you away with this one Brian C  ;)) yes, here is a picture of my 'old' HMS Manchester, which, I sold to Brian's namesake cousin  ;D (BIG BOYZ TOYZ guy) Dicky I dont think you ever met this gentleman (and I can hear the rest of the forum shreaking with horror - 'oh my word')  we wont go into that subject

Anyway, here she is - Ive got the plans still and awful lot of information about her - and definitely she is going to be rebuilt.  She would have been built instead of this one I am making now, its just Ive never made a 2nd World War destroyer before.    So, with that bit over with, to get back onthe track - righto BrianC, getting back to lithoplate - yes, you did explain to me how you used it for the superstructure but YOU NEVER EXPLAINED TO THE FORUM my man!  ;D so howay lad get ya one finger on the keyboard, get typing and let us all know how you constructed your superstructure and guns with the lithoplate.

The reason I am wary of using lithoplate on the hull is it will spend all its sailing life submerged in water and Im a bit wary of it - I know other people have used it on hulls - Captain Anonymous has used it for years, but what worries me Ive got a wooden hull sheathed in fibre glass and if I cover it in lithoplate they will all have a different expansion rate.   It wont be a great expansion rate, but it may be sufficient to break a seal and we all know what happens when a vessel sinks at the landing site and bits and pieces start falling off.

Aye
John E
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John W E

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2007, 06:27:54 PM »

hi there all,

back to the build - I am going Shipmate60's way of using copier paper for the thin plates and white card for the thick plates - I left the model still attached to the build board as when I set the frames up I had marked on the frames, the waterline and I know that the waterline is exactly 4 inches from the base of the build board.  I could therefore transfer a line all the way round the hull and also apply a centre line down the centre of the hull giving me two datum lines - I dont have a shellplating drawing.  The only drawing I have of shell-plating is the front and stern view, which is shown in one of the photographs.   I am now transferring the spacings of the shell platings onto each frame, on the outside of the hull corresponding with the drawing.   This should give me the plate widths.   I am working on the assumption that plate lengths are between 8 foot and 10 foot long and between 4 foot and 6 foot high.  This has been scaled to the 1:72 scale.

What I intend to do now is vary the plate lengths slightly.   The only problem I have at the moment is keeping my sticking mucky fingers off the plates and leaving finger prints on them. 

As for adhesive, I am using Evostik Exterior PVA glue.   When you think about it, the worst that can go wrong is when I put the model in the lake, I end up towing a cardboard box about - battle damage when all the plates float off!!!!

aye
John E
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riggers24

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2007, 07:06:41 PM »

here is a picture of my 'old' HMS Manchester, which, I sold to Brian's namesake cousin  ;D (BIG BOYZ TOYZ guy) Dicky I dont think you ever met this gentleman (and I can hear the rest of the forum shreaking with horror - 'oh my word')  we wont go into that subject


Aye
John E

History my old mate History ;)
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RickF

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2007, 07:09:14 PM »

John,

Regarding leaving sticky fingerprints on the plates, I found that giving them a quick spray with primer (I use Halfords red) on the outer surface meant that I could wipe them off with a damp cloth without damaging the paper. Also made them easier to move and press down.

Rick
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Brian_C

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2007, 09:46:29 PM »

using lithoplate its not to difficult, when doing nelsons funnel i made it first of all using 32nd marine ply, then cut the lithoplate to wrap around the funnelin three sections top middle and bottom, checked for size and marked the back ready to use the cog wheel for simulating the rivets,pressing evenly against the straight edge forming near perfect rows of rivets where you penciled earlier,, then applied the impact glue to both the funnel and the three pieces (or use a strong bonding double sided tape) place the center piece on first then apply the top and bottom and trim the excess off, and rivets should be all in line, it works for me and gives the funnel a realistic look with inner and outer plates and rivets, (just like the real jobby) try not to over spray or paint the lithoplate to much,  you will loose all the hard work and sharp finished pieces,,,,  :o  my way of building the superstructure on nelson, build a sturdy but light mock up again,  using the same outer inner outer method but pencil where to score the back for the angles and rivets, and use the same method as before and cut your portholes and windows the same way you would do with plasticard, i did the same with the turrets building up in layers and large pinhead rivets to simulate the real ship,,, ive found using these methods works well and gives a clean crisp finsh to any model, and gives it a more profesional look, and pleasing to the eye,, thats what we all try to achive,  lithoplates nice to work with and the end result will suprise you if uve not used it before,   im looking forward to johns end results on this thread, hope you can all understand my tinpot way trying to explain this process, good luck john  ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Captain Anonymous

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2007, 12:11:55 AM »

John E, Your friend collin above has discribed litho very well, I use 1/64th plywood as a backing when building superstructure, and use contact adhesive to fix the litho to the wood. There is very little movement in the two types of matierials, I find more movement in plastic, as for hull plating you will not find a better matierial, you can shape it to most shapes it will bend in two directions with a little gental persuasion.
Cutting, on small pieces I use a pair of sharp sissors on bigger pieces I use a straight edge and a sharp Stanley Knife, use very light strokes , dont try to cut though in one go, 3-4  light strokes, this saves your blades and your fingers.
Making things round, bend it over a piece of round plastic or copper pipe.
Deck plating, turn the litho over and lightly score on the back the size and shape you need, I use a small dulled down old screwdriver for this job.
If you want to make small objects like ammo lockers, I cut them out of a small piece of timber, just under size, if I need 6 , I cut them all and stick them to the back side of the litho with super glue, leave to set, then with a pair of sissors I trim round the timber, when done , glue all six on the next side, carry on till all the sides are covered, I normally sand each edge before glueing on the next piece of litho, only takes a few seconds, to finish you put on small feet and small hinges.
I hope this helps you to understand Litho plate.
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Glyn

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2007, 07:49:43 AM »

Hi there!

One further note regarding lithoplate: there are different thicknesses (gauges) used by the printing industry. The small 'quickprint' shops found on the high street tend to use a lighter gauge, which, being thinner, is easier to cut and bend and takes to curves a lot easier. The larger printers tend to use the thicker stuff, which is great for superstructures and the likes.
I once worked at a printing company and managed to accumulate a large supply of used lithoplate, along with offcuts of 1mm ABS plastic sheet - they were also silkscreen printers and used it for signage.

Cheers,
Glyn
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John W E

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2007, 10:40:45 AM »

Hi all,   Rickf thanks for the great tip for spraying the paper to prevent finger prints, but, Ive encountered a problem.  The thinner sheets of paper, which are representative of the inner shell plating, have began to shrink - leaving small gaps.

Im going to try cutting the plates slightly oversize to see if this cures the problem.   

Ive only done 4 rows of the plating so far from stem to stern and there are already over 190 plates!  NOT COUNTING ANY MORE   

Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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RickF

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2007, 11:39:47 AM »

John,

Didn't have any problem with shrinking, but I used 150g paper (1:48 scale) and full length strips scored to represent plates.

Rick
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John W E

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2007, 05:57:59 PM »

hi all still at the plating stage.  Couple of shots here to let you know how I am getting on.   at close scrutiny you will see the white keel plates - that is where I started before I read RickFs tip about painting them.   You will also see the small gaps starting to appear on the inner plates.  I noticed on RickFs photographs that he has overlapped his plates - after I have finished this next run of plates this is the procedure I am going to adopt for the rest of the plating to see if this cures the problem with the shrinkage.

You also will see my method of getting the correct taper run of the plates bow and stern.   I know the middle third of the ship, the plates are near enough parallel so I have been marking the height of the plates off at the bow taking the measurement from the waterline down to the plate line for each row of plates.  The stretching masking tape from the centre applied plates to the bow, giving them the correct taper, the same procedure is done at the stern.

Few more pics to follow when I get a bit more done.

aye
john e
bluebird
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RickF

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2007, 07:51:56 PM »

John,

The plates overlap in real life - some are "inners", some are "outers" and some are "in" at the top and "out" at the bottom (or vice versa). It gets pretty complicated if you are following a real shell expansion drawing.

I also found that using pva and thin card meant that they took on a "joggle" where they overlapped, so I ended up plating the whole hull with "inners", then gluing the "outers" in the appropriate places.

Rick
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Brian_C

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2007, 08:04:54 PM »

   hi john i know what you mean about the plating, it took nearly 500 plates on this one and pulled nearly 100 off   :'(  and do it again because i wasnt happy with it,,, but its done now and ready  for fibre glassing now  ;) ;) ;)
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John W E

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2007, 08:14:54 PM »

hi ya all - RickF and BC - I can see where Ive gone wrong in my plating now.  Where your inner platings are double the width of the plate so you stick the outer plate on the top.  What I was doing was cutting individual plates i.e. one thick and one thin of the same width and length.   Aye trials and tribulations well man that is what this modelling lark is arl aboot.  Aye

john e
bluebird

ps If I ever get the blighter finished, I will post some pics.  ;D
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2007, 08:15:31 PM »

That's an interesting ship Brian - what is it? I can't make out the name.
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Brian_C

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2007, 08:24:50 PM »

you got that time john,,, the inner plating is double the width of the outer,,, hope that pic helps you,,, and hi collin its a 96th scale mauretania 1906 jobby and its nearly 9ft long. :o yes thats right 9ft.
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Brian_C

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2007, 08:27:43 PM »

   if you did it your way john the outer plating will sink down and you will end up with ribbed lines only.    ;)
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Brian_C

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2007, 08:36:15 PM »

 john, check this pic out and you can see on the bows how wide i made the inner plating,, sometimes three inner plates in one go and it sure did speed the prosess up,  ;)
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John W E

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2007, 05:43:14 PM »

hi all, finished plating and Ive given the hull 2 coats of plasticoat spray today

Ive left the top plates long so I can trim them to the deck level when I come to level the deck off and put the correct camber on.  Its a good method of plating, and you learn by your mistakes (as they say) - the next hull I plate, the inner plates will be 3-4 times the width.  Also, I will spray the paper/card first.

The next stage in the job is to build a building stand.

aye
john e
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Shipmate60

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2007, 12:12:04 AM »

She is looking good John.

Bob
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Captain Anonymous

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Re: HMS DARING - DESTROYER 1930 - 1:72 SCALE
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2007, 12:22:44 AM »

Did you start from the bow or the stern, bluebird,
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