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Author Topic: Costa Concordia  (Read 95735 times)

Brian_C

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Costa Concordia
« on: January 14, 2012, 10:36:40 AM »

 CRUISELINER  COSTA CONCORDIA  HITS A REEF THEN SINKS
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Circlip

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 10:40:30 AM »

Although sad for the fatalities, it makes one wonder if the Captain had evacuated the boat before making for the Island, how many more there may have been.

  Regards  Ian.
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pugwash

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 10:44:53 AM »

Having just checked Google earth it would appear there has been a very big navigational error - the main route from Cittavechia to the North western Med
would usually be to the west of the Island of Giglio yet it managed to be several miles to the east and it looks as though it hit a reef near to the town of Giglio
which is on the east side of the island .
I know any loss of life is tragic for the families concerned but it could have been far far worse.  Unless there are mitigating circumstances there are going to be
some ships officers heading for court then unemployment or worse.

Geoff
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Colin Bishop

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 10:50:36 AM »

These large ships are supposed to be designed so that if the hull is breached they will settle on an even keel, something seems to have gone catastrophically wrong here. Unless the ship has grounded on a sloping underwater obstruction. causing it to keel over as it took on water, then a lot of naval architects are going to have to go back to the drawing board.

In recent years there has been much speculation as to what might happen if one of these giant vessels had to be evacuated - now they know!

Colin
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Brian_C

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 10:51:58 AM »

HERES  THE REEF SHE HIT
8 DEAD MANY MORE BADLY INJURED
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The long Build

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 11:25:55 AM »

I assume that these Multi Million Pound Ships are all fitted with state of the art sounding systems and that the reef / sand bar  was a known obstical so how did they come to hit it in the first place ?..


Also would you be able to raise a ship like this ?.

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Circlip

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 11:30:19 AM »

Quote
In recent years there has been much speculation as to what might happen if one of these giant vessels had to be evacuated - now they know!

  Strange how we don't learn from history,       100 years ago . . . . . . . .

     Regards   Ian.
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pugwash

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 11:35:11 AM »

Most common faults on these chart plotters is wrongly set coordinates for the waypoints - can't imagine thats the case here as this is one of their
set routes so the waypoints would already have been in the plotter. Sometimes it is posssible to miss a waypoint out of your passage plan so it would
then alter the ships heading towards the next waypoint i.e. might cut a corner with disasterous results.
Always possible this is a malfunction in the nav system but a 115000 ton ship licensed for passenger carrying would have more than one system.
Not much use speculating at this time - it will either be announced at a press conference or will come out at the enquiry

Geoff
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Colin Bishop

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 11:56:14 AM »

The pictures appear to show massive damage to the hull on the port side yet the vessel capsized to starboard. Some interesting food for thought there.

Despite the difficulties all the port side boats appear to have all been launched and if the casualty list is 'only' three dead then the crew didn't do too badly at all with 3,000 passengers to evacuate. Something to give thanks for anyway.

Colin
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Xtian29

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 12:48:02 PM »

Hello

Hopefully it's happen very close to civilized place with a village some hundred meters away as many people swim to escape. It's appeared that because of the list, when the rescue boat where launch the cables where too short and people have to jump to the water ... Actually there is 3 dead people but 70 still missing !

I start my career as naval architect working on the cruise ship Sovereign of the Seas in the Chantier de l'Atlantique, then when I was in Navy I was trained for damage control , so I have a close idea of the situation. I'm really worried about accident at sea with so big ship, critical stability after dammage, so many unprepared people, with a lot of elderly and some time kids, so many inside corridors just like labyrinth.

Anyway I cross my finger for mistake in calculation instead of real missing people  

Xtian  
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Colin Bishop

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2012, 12:54:09 PM »

Look at the size of this rock! Cycle through the photos.

http://multimedia.lastampa.it/multimedia/in-italia/lstp/110345/

Colin
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dodgy geezer

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2012, 01:10:24 PM »


The pictures appear to show massive damage to the hull on the port side yet the vessel capsized to starboard. Some interesting food for thought there.


It looks to me as if the ship holed itself on the top of an underwater reef, then slid down the side of it, toppling away from the reef into the deeper water. An earlier post indicated that its position will correspond with the shape of the sea bed...
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TugCowboy

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2012, 01:16:24 PM »

Look at the size of this rock!
That is one heck of a rock
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Colin Bishop

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2012, 01:20:15 PM »

Quote
It looks to me as if the ship holed itself on the top of an underwater reef, then slid down the side of it, toppling away from the reef into the deeper water. An earlier post indicated that its position will correspond with the shape of the sea bed...

It does rather look like that but reports are suggesting that the ship initially hit a 'sandbank' and was subsequently steered to its present position which certainly does seem to be on the rocks. maybe it went aground twice? But usually if you hit a sandbank the damage is relatively minimal and more embarrasing than dangerous.

Colin
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2012, 03:35:07 PM »

Is that a rock still embedded?

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Martin [Admin]

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2012, 03:45:37 PM »

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DavieTait

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2012, 03:49:26 PM »

Yes its also about the size of a 14 seat bus , must be at least 100-120 tonnes in weight , the hole on the port bilge is at least 100 to 120 feet in length and as she settled to starboard we can only think that her starboard side is in a much much worse state.

the liferaft you can see will be a 60 man sized raft so around 4m diameter I think

Apparently the captain after hitting the reef instead of getting everyone off ASAP decided to try and make for port , surely in a situation like this anyone with any experience of command would get ALL passengers and crew off leaving only a skeleton crew aboard to try and save the ship.

I'm afraid that my feelings on these ships has been reinforced by this incident , there was another large cruise ship that sank at a Greek island a few years ago in the anchorage after clipping the rocks again with loss of life , these 2 incidents means to me that these types of ships cannot be considered safe. Shipping containers are washed overboard from container ships on a regular basis and quite a few don't sink , now take this situation , ship of this type at 110,000t + deadweight doing 20-24 knots hits a container ripping open the hull mid Atlantic ( doesn't need to be a huge hole to cause serious flooding ) well out beyond any helicopter or inshore rescue ships in a F6-F7 , the loss of life would be far far worse than the Titanic
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2012, 04:38:46 PM »


How do they go about salvaging something like this?

 
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Colin Bishop

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2012, 05:21:29 PM »

Quote
How do they go about salvaging something like this?

Basically they have to seal up all the openings below the water and then pump her out, there is a precedent with the old Normandie of about the same size which capsized in New York during the war after a fire but in this case there is clearly massive damage to the hull to be dealt with as well. On the port side they would probably build a coffer dam but obviously we don't know how far the damage extends below the ship and across to the starboard side. It also depends on how many watertight compartments were ruptured - several by the look of it.

Although the Med is essentially a tideless sea it can still blow up pretty rough during the winter so they won't want to waste any time getting started.

Colin
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DavieTait

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2012, 05:43:00 PM »

she's probably torn wide open along the keel Colin so I can't see anyway to get her upright and floating again , her size works against salvage as well being 950ft and 114,500t

I can see them having no choice but cutting her up where she lies until they can get the hull down to the waterline , pull her over , cut her into 5,000t sections and lift with a crane barge , probably take the best part of a year to scrap her going by how long it took them to chop up that container ship that went ashore in the channel a couple of years ago and she was upright !
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Davie Tait,
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Colin Bishop

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2012, 05:52:33 PM »

Quite possibly Davie, but they will obviously evaluate the extent of the damage first. It's interesting that the damage is amidships and apparently not at the bows as you might expect. Still a lot of questions to be answered. For example there does't appear to be any obvious major oil spill at present and presumably her tanks would be in the double bottom.

Colin
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john s 2

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2012, 05:52:58 PM »

To my mind the worrying thing is that because of the list it was not possible to launch all the life boats. Who on earth designs a system that fails if the boat keels over? Some boats can be seen hanging down the side of the boat. Shades of the Titanic? What if this vessal had not been so close to the shore, and rescue boats not at hand? Rip those who did die. John.  
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DavieTait

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2012, 05:55:55 PM »

It looks like the tanks are still intact so far Colin but she must be holed starboard side as well , the lifeboat launching system is just not designed to work against gravity John they have to be able to deploy unpowered so rely on gravity to pull them out of their holding berths once you get to more than about 5 degree's of list on a boat of this design they obviously don't deploy so they need redesigned urgently

Just found the links to the cruise ship that sunk at Santorini Greece in April 2007 with the loss of a man and his daughter

If people can be killed in flat calm conditions this close to shore then these ships must have a very very serious doubt cast over them as a safe mode of passage , they are all far far to high out of the water compared to their draft , they all need active stabalising fins and if they loose power they roll very very heavily

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17980169/ns/travel-cruise_travel/t/missing-after-greek-ship-hits-rocks-sinks/#.TxG_U4GxW6M

http://youtu.be/p5sjnXkeTJI

As for rolling heavily look at this video

http://youtu.be/_eFT6qKyLiw

http://youtu.be/hkhHcCFUDpw
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TugCowboy

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2012, 05:56:47 PM »

Who on earth designs a system that fails if the boat keels over? Some boats can be seen hanging down the side of the boat.

I agree there but what is the alternative? enough inflatable's for all PAX down each side of the boat? I've always wondered what the best system would be.
I'd much rather (I think) the option of a more rigid escape vessel down just one side, than a whole compliment of just inflatable rafts....although in an emergency I'd probably care a little less ;)

Alex
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Welsh Wizard

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2012, 05:57:35 PM »

And the Fiance wondered why I wont go on a ruddy cruse liner NOW she KNOWS


Dave
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