Model Boat Mayhem

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Author Topic: Costa Concordia  (Read 95861 times)

RaaArtyGunner

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #175 on: January 20, 2012, 10:21:08 PM »

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Welsh Wizard

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #176 on: January 20, 2012, 10:37:03 PM »

So he crashed it then beached it not far from the first impact very interesting indeed



Dave
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Colin Bishop

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #177 on: January 20, 2012, 10:39:52 PM »

I think the full facts, when they eventually emerge, are going to be very interesting indeed. At the moment there is a real blizzard of supposition and speculation which makes it very hard to work out the course of events.

Colin
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dodgy geezer

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #178 on: January 20, 2012, 10:40:23 PM »


 Patronizing or what. Xtian is not a school kid, he's French and will admit that his English is not 100% though most of us can understand his meaning.


If you read my comment you will note that I have no problem with poor English per se - I will rarely comment on issues of poor grammar unless there is some particular point to make. Many of the comments on this forum are not ideal English, but I think we generally understand what is meant. Poor writing may simply be an indication of deep emotion or a hurried response - as your missing question mark presumably is?

More importantly, I was NOT pointing out any grammatical issue, but rather that Xtian and Davidxq1 seemed to think I was claiming that the manoeuvre should not have been made, when what I was saying was that it was a manoeuvre which demanded caution - exactly the point they made in their responses. So if either of them read this, they might like to know that all three of us are in complete agreement, and that I believe I have understood them adequately. The problem is rather the other way around and in retrospect it would have aided understanding if I had not used the word 'danger' - though I think I have demonstrated that it has exactly the meaning I expected it to have.

I have a problem if people misunderstand what I am saying, and so I respond to it. In this case I had two people who seemed to think I was saying something I was not, so I suspect the issue of nationality is irrelevant here. I just do not like misunderstandings, and your apparent belief that I was attacking someone for poor use of English seems to be yet another one, which needs to be addressed before it gains any further exposure.

Having said that, there is a part of your missive that I do have trouble understanding. That is the assertion that I should refrain from quoting from (presumed) authoritative texts. Why is this?
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Xtian29

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #179 on: January 20, 2012, 11:03:02 PM »

Very interresting video but mostly for the ship course and data like time and speed. The comment is some time just a speculation when talking about current (in mediteranean sea there is no strong current)  maybe we have to speak about wind. The comment about the speed at the arrival is also strange as 15 kt is a regular speed for this kind of ship to be manoeuvrable, then she don't have to slow down : she supposed to make a pass not to come into the harbour. The use of bow thruster is not sure as any stopped ship like this one come naturally at 90° to the wind direction - maybe not thruster but only natural turn or maybe really thruster ?  Then as image showed, the anchor was dropped : what about that in the comments ?

But very interresting video with the mapping from AIS with all data   
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #180 on: January 21, 2012, 04:30:00 AM »

So he crashed it then beached it not far from the first impact very interesting indeed



Dave

This is what I have been hearing from the beginning.
What this clears up, is the early speculation that the ship passed between the rocks.

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Circlip

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #181 on: January 21, 2012, 09:20:46 AM »

You seem to forget Dodgy, some responses bypass the reading and understanding process when trying to melt the keycaps.   {-) :-))

  Regards   Ian.
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CF-FZG

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #182 on: January 21, 2012, 10:20:35 AM »

I have a problem if people misunderstand what I am saying, and so I respond to it.

Doesn't that tell you that you might not be making yourself very clear, rather that other people are incapable of understanding what you're saying??


Mark.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #183 on: January 21, 2012, 11:39:35 AM »


Doesn't that tell you that you might not be making yourself very clear, rather that other people are incapable of understanding what you're saying??



Yes, that is quite true. One should always strive for clarity, and English is such an ambiguous language. This is the reason why I took some time later to explain my use of the word 'danger', which is the word that seemed to cause the misunderstanding. I am not sure why my attempt to clarify what I was saying has caused such opprobrium...


I was interested to see the data in the video showing that the Costa turned to starboard - in other blogs I am watching assertions are being made that the big issue is the capsize, and that the big story should be the failure of current regulations to pay due consideration to the MFS effect - this paper is being freely quoted: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=vassalos+solas+2009&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dft.gov.uk%2Fmca%2Fa11._stab_2007_solas_2009_-_raising_the_alarm.doc&ei=zaAaT8jQL8T24QT9wMDHDQ&usg=AFQjCNHdfNqJ7_Nl3J1IjgW1uUmqtKsxdg . If the ship did not do a sharp turn to port I suspect that it is less likely that this effect is implicated...

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slug

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #184 on: January 21, 2012, 12:10:12 PM »

very sad about the loss of life but this blog on meyham just goes to show what a learned people you are how many seafaring officers writers etc belong to this forum i have found this blog very very interesting such knowledge me just a humble trucker a few years ago a ship ended up across the river at sutton bridge lincs that was cut up in situe with a cutting  chain took a few weeks if i remember  thanks for all your knowledge i am very humbled keep up the good work slug
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pettyofficernick

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #185 on: January 21, 2012, 05:34:09 PM »



 In fact my English is good to speak with the rest of the world ... but not with English



Nothing wrong with your English sir, perfectly understandable! :-)) :-)) :-))
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pettyofficernick

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #186 on: January 21, 2012, 05:45:43 PM »

I saw (no pun intended) U539 being sliced up with an endless wire cutter on Wallasey Docks a few years ago, most interesting, and very precise. :-)) :-))
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John W E

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #187 on: January 21, 2012, 08:27:09 PM »

hi ya

question for those who have been on these types of cruises, I wonder, when one originally books and all the paperwork comes through to go on the cruise, in the paperwork is there information on whereabouts all safety equipment is; such as lifejackets; lifeboat station/safety officer etc., information.    Or, I wonder if this is all left until one boards the ship?

The reason I am asking this question is - after reading all these posts etc., on the web - about this disaster - I am of the opinion that the liner's owners/travel agents have the attitude of - bit like a cattle market - get those passengers on and off board as quickly as possible - less time spent in port?   Little time before the ships sails before going through safety procedures etc
aye
john
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Colin Bishop

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #188 on: January 21, 2012, 08:42:38 PM »

John,

Not much point in having the safety stuff sent to you beforehand as you need to be aboard to make sense of it. On the cruises I have been on, as soon as you get to your cabin the TV is on showing general information about the ship including a rundown of the safety procedures and where to find your lifejacket. There is also a note in your cabin saying that lifeboat drill will be held before sailing and that no one is exempt. The cabin stewards are instructed to ensure that everyone leaves their cabin and reports to muster stations where you are shown how to put on your lifejacket.

It was all taken very seriously on the ships I have been on, I can't speak for the Italians though!

Pic below was taken at Port of Tyne.

Colin

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Martin [Admin]

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #189 on: January 21, 2012, 10:04:34 PM »


How seriously do people take emergency muster drills Colin?
Do some people just not bother?
Do the crews check?
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Xtian29

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #190 on: January 21, 2012, 10:38:04 PM »

I've experienced a drill like that as observer (coast guard team) and it was just like a joke, same as aircraft demo, most people don't care about that ! Tourist are not here for thinking about Titanic experience and crew do that every weeks and like airline hostesses it's just a well known speech.  As I heard from the coast guard team I was with, the serious of the drill depend mostly on what kind of tourists,  people doing Norwegian or Alaska cruises are more serious than the ones going to Bahamas and Mediteranean sea.   
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Colin Bishop

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #191 on: January 21, 2012, 10:42:35 PM »

Martin.

As I said above, the drills are compulsory. They check that everyone is there and if anyone is missing they are chased up by the crew.On Thomson Cruises they had passenger checklists at your designated lifeboat. On QM2 I think they relied upon the crew ensuring that all passengers were at muster stations. They also check that you have put your lifejacket on properly.

I have heard that anyone who refuses to participate is left ashore.

Passengers seem to take it seriously enough from what I could see but I have only experienced it on British ships and, despite what Xtian says, I don't think people regarded it as a joke. However, from my driving experiences in Southern Europe, I think people there tend to adopt a more cavalier approach to safety issues - maybe it's the Latin temperament.

We often travel on Western Channel ferries though and they don't have safety drills. There is a safety announcement and there are notices around the ship including on the back of cabin doors. On the ferries, lifejackets are distributed by the crew at muster stations whereas on cruise ships you have your own lifejackets in your cabin.

This all contrasts with Model Boat Mayhem events where you have to rely on Steamboat Phil and Stavros to fish you out....

Colin
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Tug Hercules Fireman

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #192 on: January 21, 2012, 10:45:12 PM »

In photos 5 and 6; What is the protrusion that sticks out of the hull - it looks like a fin??


Tug Hercules
Fireman Rick

Look at the size of this rock! Cycle through the photos.

http://multimedia.lastampa.it/multimedia/in-italia/lstp/110345/

Colin
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dodgy geezer

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #193 on: January 21, 2012, 10:46:52 PM »

A stabiliser - it helps minimise roll..
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unicorn

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #194 on: January 21, 2012, 11:09:07 PM »


How seriously do people take emergency muster drills Colin?
Do some people just not bother?
Do the crews check?


            Over 45 years ago on Super Tankers and the larger Liners it was known as the,

                                       THE BOARD OF TRADE SPORTS

                                                                           unicorn
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Xtian29

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #195 on: January 21, 2012, 11:09:59 PM »

Humm Colin, not only latin temperament some German British or Norwegian young groups on cruise are there only to drink, dance and fu..  They are not the best passagers for  leastening the demo.

I remember also at Nouméa New Caledonia when a P&O cruise ship came from Sydney Australia with a whole "cargo of teenagers",  as I heard it's like a tradition for them at the end of the school year to do a travel like that. Same in the US with special teenager cruise : drink, dance and fu..  
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Colin Bishop

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #196 on: January 21, 2012, 11:16:15 PM »

Well, like I said, I can only speak from my own not very extensive experience. I'm sure the crews do the best they can to manage the risk. There are certainly some stupid people aboard cruise ships of all ages but you don't need to take an IQ test to buy a ticket.

As far as driving is concerned I have driven thousands of miles (kilometres) in Europe and it is very noticeable that the further south and east you go the worse the driving standards become. People simply take more risks.

Colin
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Eric65

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #197 on: January 21, 2012, 11:18:19 PM »

Regarding the ship rolling over the wrong way, I belive that when a ship looses stability with flooding she can actually roll the 'wrong' way very easily.

There are instances of warships rolling 'away' from the hole in the hull, HMS Kelly was a classic example, although Mountbatten managed to save the ship, there are some excellent photos of her rolling badly with the damaged side of the hull 'up' out of the water.
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Xtian29

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #198 on: January 21, 2012, 11:23:23 PM »

Quote
Regarding the ship rolling over the wrong way, I belive that when a ship looses stability with flooding she can actually roll the 'wrong' way very easily.

From what I'm thinking, at the end of her travel, after the U-turn, the ship was just drifting because of the wind, 90° from the wind direction as every ship like that. By this way it's quite normal to roll on the other side from the wind coming side. 
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: COSTA CONCORDIA SINKS
« Reply #199 on: January 21, 2012, 11:33:24 PM »


 cruise ship came from Sydney Australia with a whole "cargo of teenagers",  as I heard it's like a tradition for them at the end of the school year

Correct they couldn't care less.

Yes it is an established annual event ?????  called schoolies ??????? sanctioned by Government/police, where a large portion of the Gold Coast is fenced off for the schoolies, who are  those who kids have completed there schooling to party on, revell, create mayhem, get drunk and as xtian says......... etc.

This is where the youth of today encouraged by their parents who buy and bring the grog, learn life's lesssons and standards and we wonder why OZ has a drinking problem.

Back to the subject.
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