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Author Topic: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build  (Read 56025 times)

tt1

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Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« on: February 04, 2012, 10:52:42 pm »

For anyone to whom it may be of interest, esp Dicky! here goes with my build log of the above. I'll tell it like it is /was, which maybe of some help to newcomers or anyone who may want to build this model. As I'm not the quickest of builders I thought it wise to get well into the model before posting so that the time between posts and pics are not too great. Downside of this of course is that any hints, tips, or constructive criticism that members would like to throw in or advise on, (which are always welcome as I'm also on here to learn), may come a little too late for this build - but - please feel free to chuck in your twopenworth, hopefully there's always another model to make and advice can always be put to good use. Flattery isn't the name of the game.

       As is usual for me I'll start with the boring bits zzzzzzzzzzzzzz! {-)
First pic, needed extra table space for easier access to both sides of the model so made this sturdy but level and removable extension.



Now the stand .......... gripping stuff eh?



I always (well at least three times!) like the stand to hold the hull square, parallel to the keel and to hold the hull rigidly in the exact location everytime without any juggling. (that comes later if I cock up)
Achieving that wasn't at all easy with this hull, the smooth and almost equal curves side to side and fore and aft mean't the base had to replicate the hull shape exactly to prevent movement. There was a slight twist in the keel, front to back, and had to use packers to overcome the variation. Eventually managed to get it spot on but took 2 days.
 




















Noticed by the edge of the spirit level, what looked like a bit of a crack in the rubbing strake - (if that's what it's called) you know the bumper bit around the top of the hull, anyway had a little pick and look see and found this:



Bit of a blow hole /void, decided to check all round by gently tapping the bumper with the tang of a file listening for any difference in resonance -



 



ah well have plenty of filler {-) This is what I also use as well of the proprietary car body filler, Chemical Metal - love it - strong, grips really well and can be drilled etc without chipping, many times have found it to be far better in some applications than the more softer putty or body filler, can even build up an edge with it.


That's it for now, will add more soon, ta ta and regards, Tony.  :-))
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6705russell

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2012, 11:02:41 pm »

I think I would of got that hull changed Tony, poor moulding to say the least..

Russ
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DickyD

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2012, 11:07:29 pm »

Tip one.

You should have got an ironing board Tony, dead easy to work on both sides.



Tip two.

Should have sent the hull back, not good.
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Norseman

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2012, 06:50:59 am »

Hi Tony

Just here to say I'm tagging along even if I don't say too much :}
(that might be something new for me  %))

Dave
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Netleyned

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2012, 12:55:14 pm »

Are you exchanging the hull Tony?
I for one would not accept one in that condition.
Like buying a new car and finding a large dent and
saying 'never mind I've got plenty of filler  :(( :(( :((

Ned
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nhp651

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2012, 05:05:32 pm »

Are you exchanging the hull Tony?
I for one would not accept one in that condition.
Like buying a new car and finding a large dent and
saying 'never mind I've got plenty of filler  :(( :(( :((

Ned

yes, all be it, a little substandard, but nothing like buying a car.....you're not paying 25 grand for a model kit, and what is a little bit of filling  between friends ....

these are not multibillion dollar companies, but cottage industries, that perform well on a little  good will from their customers, and also all hand laid up!

do you want these companies to give up and leave you back to the dark ages of wooden kits with very little character.
and I would have thought a certain modeller on here would have learned his lesson from slagging off Speedline models so many times that Speedline don't even bother to contact him any more.

For god's sake, what's wrong with getting your hands dirty once in a while and putting a little filler into a model boat for a change......after all, you all that have said you'd send it back are modellers....you've proved it by showing your models on here...........and you want the products for the cheepest prices you can get???

Instead of publicly flogging a manufacturer for your own gratification and ego's do as tt1 has done and get on with it...shows just how fickle some of you are.

I am really disgusted  with some attitudes on here, and that some of you have made the same comments over and over again about different manufacturers...... One of these days they'll all retire like laurie and jackie white of Model slipway..then those that rely on kits for their modelling and who do the most moaning will really be in the Kack.......they'll have to take up aeromodelling or fish keeping.

IF YOU CAN DO BETTER, THEN GO AND SHOW US!! >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(  Otherwise, leave them alone!!!
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tt1

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2012, 05:21:17 pm »

 Hello chaps, no I've stayed with the hull and moved on, if it was something really detremental that I couldn't repair with reasonable ease I may of thought, or reacted differently. I try to be quite a forgiving and understanding bloke really, and to be honest (or soft maybe  {-)) there are one or two points that Neil makes that I do accept and sympathise with.  Anyway posting more soon - promise  {-) {-) {-)

                               Regards, me.
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nhp651

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2012, 09:18:22 pm »

.  Anyway posting more soon - promise  {-) {-) {-)

                               Regards, me.

Looking forward to it, tt1..it's a model I have always liked.........plenty of detail and character.
neil.
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tt1

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2012, 10:08:15 pm »

A little more on the build, and as in life, I started at the bottom and tried to work my way up. Did a few simple bits on the hull first to warm up so as to speak and cuz I knew where they went  O0. Fitted engine water outlets, opening grills and then the oval ruffle rings (had to look that one up!) Nowt mind blowing yet  {-) As the ruffle holes are drilled through the keel it's important to ensure a watertight seal around them to avoid the obvious. Marked out their positions drilled small pilot holes through the keel and backfilled same from the inside with a good dollop of body filler followed by a coating epoxy resin. Located the ruffle rings on the outside (doh) then opened out the holes to suit.

  When working with the hull upside down I found the following works and moulds itself to shape a treat - 1 from the pound shop, the better half wouldn't let me use one off the bed.
 



Followed on with the engine exhaust plates located one each side of the hull, as the hull is well curved down its side and the plates are flat, a fair old gap at the top and bottom edges would need filling but the exhaust plates looked to protrude a little too much for me so set about 'em with the angle grinder! formed a vee groove down the back face and with gentle persuasion from the lump hammer managed to put a curve in the plates to suit - managed the first ok but sure I heard a distinct and unwelcome sound from the second  :(( maybe a smaller hammer? still- glued that one in place a bit sharpish while it was still in one piece, came out well in the end though. Back filled both with body filler and again a coat of epoxy to waterproof.









The ruder bottom skeg was next on the agenda, it was then that the twist at the back of the keel became quite noticeable as did the the varying thickness of the stern post (?) (the upright bit at the back)  A bit of juggling was order of the day as was removing and fitting new location pins to gain a central and reasonable alignment for the rudder shaft.










Amazing what you can achieve with a bucket of filler and some primer   %)

 
       A bit more later, goodnight and regards, Tony.
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nhp651

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2012, 11:39:23 pm »

I swear by it Tony......without it, some of my models would be holier than a collander, lol
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Netleyned

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2012, 07:03:13 am »

Neil,
I was not slagging off the supplier.
As you say they are cottage industries not multinationals churning out hulls by the thousand.
If I were the supplier I think I would appreciate feedback from customers be it good or bad.
A heads up to the supplier could identify a problem in material quality that had changed or
perhaps a change in manufacturing procedure.
If I was supplying the goods I would like to know of any problems rather than word getting around
that the product was substandard.
I myself have nothing but praise for the kit suppliers in our hobby and I have dealt with hull blemishes
with the required rubbing down and filling. No-one expects a 100% perfect product but a word to the
maker could be of help to him.

Ned
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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2012, 07:42:42 am »

I can see both points of view here, on the one hand it was very easy to fix so why make a fuss. On the other side Ned you are saying inform the supplier that the product supplied was faulty, & some suppliers would be happy that they had been informed, & in most cases would want to put it right .Being in business for years we do get faulty parts from time to time, my policy has always to replace or refund no questions asked. It is not fair to "xxxxx" a business without first giving them the chance to correct the problem. Mick B.
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tt1

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2012, 02:31:05 pm »

Good point Ned and Mick, will give Dave a courtesy call purely to advise. The intention of my log is purely to give something back to the forum and perhaps, hopefully, help someone along the way. It'll be honest and hope to portray it like it is/was without intended criticism of anyone, besides, who am I to criticise - wait till you see some of the cock ups I've made!!  O0 {-) {-) {-)

        As is said "he who is without sin may cast the first stone"   :-))

                                                              Regards to all, me.
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6705russell

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2012, 02:54:11 pm »

Unfortunately there are a few people on here who have nothing better to do other than snipe at peoples comments, most of us have to work for a living and save to buy these kits which to some of us cost a lot of money,some of us dont have the time to scratch build so kits are a god send,  I for one would of sent the hull back and asked for a replacement, I know for a fact that hulls dont usually come in that condition so there must of been a problem in the moulding process which I should imagine the supplier would be more than happy to be made aware of, if ceratin people want to patch up with filler then by all means do so but dont dig at others for not wanting to.

Russ
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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2012, 05:08:24 pm »

Hi Russ, some of us are black & white when it comes to issues like this & then again some are all the colours of the rainbow. Does that make one right & the other wrong ?, not necessarily so. I am sure that Neil is well intentioned when he says don't sweat the small stuff. He would repair it in a matter of minutes which is what tt1 also did. Sometimes we snipe at each other & at the end of the day you will find for no really good reason. There are two points of view here, as I said in my first post I can see valid points in both.This can be a very argumentative issue. I think that the owner of the hull made the right decision with the rider that I would personally let the manufacturer know in case something needed to be corrected for future kits. In this particular case both points of view have been dealt with & any  hard words between the posters will not change the outcome, so we should relax & move on. Mick B.
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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2012, 05:22:09 pm »

Will you lot pack it in and let Tony get on with this build. If you want to argue the toss start another topic on what is or is not acceptable.

Tony wasn't sure whether to put his build on here but was talked into it. Can we let him get on with it whilst he still wants to.

This is probably why there are not so many builds on here as there used to be at the start of the forum.

Being given tips on your build is good, arguing over whether you are a pratt is not good. >>:-(
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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2012, 05:31:45 pm »

I'm enjoying the build so far Tony
watching with interest and hoping to learn  :}

Dave
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tt1

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2012, 06:19:19 pm »

 I'm sure my missus sometimes think I am Dicky - (a p--- that is!) {-) {-) {-) Hi Dave hope it becomes a bit more interesting for everyone but can't promise! {-)

          Supplier informed for some of the good reasons put forward by you guys, MOST apologetic and exchange would never have been in question. Apparently at the time of manufacture the normal 'moulder' was seriously ill and a temporary alternative was used. End of story, more to come soon and will continue in a light hearted manner, but boy have I dropped some goolies!

                                           ta ta, Tony.
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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2012, 06:34:59 pm »

Do we really want to see your goolies Tony ? {:-{
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john44

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2012, 08:13:45 pm »

 but boy have I dropped some goolies!

                                       
[/quote]Well Tony as they say if you havent ever made a mistake, you have never made anything.

john
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tt1

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2012, 02:00:43 pm »

Hello folks before I add a little more, have recently been following builds from Ggeorge, Wilhelm, Gribeauval and other brilliant model makers, I wished now to have titled this "build for beginners only" Ah well to proceed.
         Next up was the propshafts and motor alignment, this is my first twin screw build using 'A' frames - and in tunnels to boot.  To try and achieve the usual requirement of ensuring all was in line, free running, parallel, at the right angle and props central and equidistant in the tunnel, I thought it best to assemble and fit as an all in one unit and glue in place when happy. The hole dimensions for propshaft tubes were given in the instructions, thereafter it was a case of what looked right. Somehow I've lost some pics of this, but suffice to say one of the holes ended up no better than the one a mouse chewed in my fishing creel. The motor and propshaft were temporarily lined up using sections of square brass tube (cut slightly over length of the huco couplings) that gave a nice snug fit.  Cleaned up the A frames fitted to shafts along with a couple of discs to simulate the props.

         I used the motor mounts and motors from MMM, the mounts gripped adequately but the bases underneath were concaved and allowed distortion when being screwed down so an alternative Heath Robinson affair was concocted, to achieve the height and correct angle.  The motor and mounts were seated on blocks of wood with a dollop of CT1, a mastic / adhesive used in construction. Gives time for positioning before curing to a sound but not brittle joint - can be applied underwater and sticks like the proverbial!

         Made a simple wedge gauge for disc height in the tunnel which maintained the correct propshaft angle. The A frames were a nightmare for me, one of the legs had a crack in it and subsequently broke, but moreso I spent ages filing, packing, adding and removing bits from the location lugs to get good location in the exact position without gaps to fill - got there in the end. Used blue tack around the outer holes to hold position and prevent the epoxy pouring out when gluing in the tubes.

        Oh yes, drilling the holes for the A frame fixing screws made the air a little blue at times, could have done with a mini right angled drill which I don't have, and there was no way could I get my clumpy fingers inside the keel void to apply locknuts, a dab of epoxy sufficed. When all was positioned and fixed, prop tube supports were made added for a belt and braces affair.

I think I may of rabbeted on a bit so here 's some pics.
















          More very soon, Tony.
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john44

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2012, 02:13:53 pm »

looking O/K Tony.
I drilled a small hole in the A frames on mine so I could pack the bearings with grease.
using the ever useful small sryinge.

john
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nhp651

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2012, 04:56:53 pm »

That's a good idea John..like that.

neil.
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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2012, 06:22:00 pm »

Hi Tony, you are moving along pretty fast with your build & it is looking good. I have to say you handled the hull issue very well, good for you. I have been at a standstill since I got back from holidays in Maui, am finding it very hard to get back in gear, I am building the Billings Smit Nederland & have not touched it in a month. I wondered if you had seen the thread by "oldiron" (John) on drive couplings, if not I think you would be wise to read it. It is about which driveshaft couplings to use, I think it will surprise you. The Dumas dogbone variety were the best & the Huco's were the worst, Don't let me influence you though, read the thread for yourself. It certainly changed my mind & several others too. Let me know what you think, I would be interested in your opinion. I am working on making a C/V joint but it is not an easy thing to make, I have two failures so far that will not do the job. I am off to the tool store now to buy some metric taps & dies to continue with my messing about to see what I can come up with. I also have to get small ball bearings, the ones I had were too big, (available in lots of 25 @ the local bearing shop) it would have made the joint a bit too big to say the least & ugly looking too. Mick B. 
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tt1

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Re: Alice Upjohn my 3rd build
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2012, 10:09:06 pm »

Thanks John good tip as Neil said - like it  :-))

          Hello Mick, don't be deceived by the build progress, I did get a head start before starting to post, didn't want what interest there may be to go off the boil by waiting too long for updates. Yes I did read John's (Oldiron) info on couplings - I read all of his tutorials, great help and wealth of knowledge. I do like the look of the Dumas type couplings he pointed out, not sure if 4mm inserts are available - will check it out, meanwhile the huco's will do for setting up at least, have used them on my other two boats with no trouble as yet however if there's better to be had then so be it. By the way I think SHG do similar style ones as the Dumas.
           More pics of the build that I feel sure don't need any explanation except the supports for the fore and aft decks. According to the instructions and a review from Model Boats Mag by Rob Clark, they should follow the usual procedure of sitting on bearers inside the hull and finishing flush with the top edge of the sides, however both mention the decks require to be cut extremely carefully and "sprung" into place - Rob advises not as easy as it sounds.

           I didn't see the point in struggling so I cut the sides 2mm lower to fit the decks on top, there is a rubbing strake to be run around the outside of the hull and rounded off level with the decks, so it's only a matter of filling any gaps on the top rather than the side.  The supports were therefore fitted level with the hull edges - easy peasy as they say.  I'll shut up now - here's some pics.

































Will post again soon, regards, Tony.
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