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Author Topic: cheap ic racing boats  (Read 9267 times)

w3bby

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2007, 04:32:20 PM »

Not too sure about the details but Sweden (and Germany I believe) have 1,8cc and 2,5cc racing on the lines of FSR-V, they also run a special class with the 1,8cc. Whilst the idea is for cheaper racing you have some that buy the "hot" engines and lay down time and money to get improved performance. I'll see if I can find a link or two for you...

glennb2006

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2007, 04:41:20 PM »

Cheers Ian.

Post coming tonight, got the info from MPBA.

Glenn
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OneBladeMissing

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2007, 05:27:57 PM »

I think the Manchester club run a club class using one type of boat (they have the moulds) and Irvine .40 engines.
Dave Marles is right. The numbers of participants these days have been spread out among the different disciplines of racing.
Low cost racing, using the types of boats and engines I suggested in my original post, could be viable at club level though. The rules would have to be strict, and not be allowed to be tampered with to please the 'pot-hunters'.
When Formula Ford 1600 racing was introduced in the sixties, the cars were as basic as possible. Over the years they have become more complex and new 'starter' formulas have had to be introduced. The cars became more complex because they were allowed to.
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Andy

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2007, 05:53:23 PM »

We at Elmbridge run a Atlantor club boat.
The club supplies the hull (90) that must be built using a 61 front induction/side exhaust and submerged drive.
And has to run for a 10min race.
You are allowed to get the files out and play with the motor.
In all the boat works out to about 350ish, some of these boats are very fast but then the handling becomes very intesting and
motors go bang very often( so, not the fastest always wins ).
It's all for a bit of fun but it has beome a very high maintenance boat.
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glennb2006

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2007, 06:15:01 PM »

Thanks Andy,

Ian Folkson mentioned you guys were doing that at your club. Sounds a hoot.

Glenn
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OneBladeMissing

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2007, 07:09:43 PM »

"... motors go bang very often..."
What are you doing to them/feeding them on?
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martno1fan

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2007, 07:39:30 PM »

We at Elmbridge run a Atlantor club boat.
The club supplies the hull (90) that must be built using a 61 front induction/side exhaust and submerged drive.
And has to run for a 10min race.
You are allowed to get the files out and play with the motor.
In all the boat works out to about 350ish, some of these boats are very fast but then the handling becomes very intesting and
motors go bang very often( so, not the fastest always wins ).
It's all for a bit of fun but it has beome a very high maintenance boat.

another reason for running a petrol strimmer motor less maintenance and less chance og it going BANG!!!350 quid? thats a lot my boat cost me 150 quid to be up and running.also only took me 5 weeks to get her wet and i built the hull from scratch too!!.the americans have been using weedy engines for years and they are cheap and work very well in a 4 ft boat.
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omra85

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2007, 09:39:35 PM »

Before I throw my 2p worth in, I'd like to explain where my thoughts stem from (with apologies in advance for the necessary detail)

I started racing in 1975, did a couple of races and then work forced a 9yr gap.
I returned to MPBA Multi racing in 1984 at Maidstone.  I took part in many races, with some success mostly in the South.
In 1987 we moved to the Midlands and I joined Kingsbury club. I served 2 years as the Midland Area Secretary for the MPBA, followed by 5 years as MPBA Multi Secretary and 2 years as Multi Chairman.
During this time, I continued to race boats in most Multi classes, except spark ignition (which in those days was not a popular class) ending most years between 5th and 8th in the National Championships.
I also organised, with the help of others, many LARGE National championship events over both one and two days.
For reasons which I will not go into here, I left multi in 1998 and joined OMRA, which has been in existance since 1967, but of which I had previously been unaware.  I have been racing all over the country in OMRA events and am still doing so.

I say all this, not to try to gain some sort of kudos, but to illustrate my depth of experience, both good and bad, as a racer and as an organiser in IC boat racing.

I am often embarassed when answering one of the inevitable questions from interested spectators that, in all honesty, there is no cheap way into model boat racing to compete nationally.  I obviously try to be as positive as possible, saying things like - "once you have bought the tank, pipe, radio, mounts, they will last years" but I more often get a wry smile and a polite thankyou, as another potential racer heads into the sunset.

IF another "cheap to start and race" class is to be attempted, a number of things need to be considered.  It will take a definite committment on many parts.

The organisation
1. The class must be recognised by a National Body in order that racers have the same facilities and opportunities as the existing classes into which they may well move.  "Club" rules and racing does not give the same 'feel' as open competitions with members from many clubs competing individually.  It does not matter which 'National body' incorporates the new class but based on my previous experience, it would be more difficult to have it accepted in the MPBA.  This would also allow progression to true National Championships.
2. Races MUST be held as part of the same competitions as the other classes running under the National body.  The OMRA 'Z' class is an excellent example of what should NOT be done.  'Z' class races are held on different dates and at different venues and for a different championship than the original OMRA classes.  It has resulted in very few racers taking part in both 'sets' of races, further, as few 'Z' racers want to travel a long way just to race one class of boat, the way was clear to introduce another 'Z' class which meant that racers could now race two classes on the same day, thus the 'Z modified' class was born.
This has effectively split OMRA right down the middle, with few racers crossing from 'Z' to 'AA-D' classes. The very reason it was introduced in the first place.

The boat
3. A RTR or ARTR boat would be preferred by many new racers. It MUST be readily available in whatever numbers may be required and NOT rely on 'special offers' or 'here today, gone tomorrow' suppliers.  If we could get a UK manufacturer to put together a ready built, or as a minimum a COMPLETE kit, plus comprehensive, easy to understand instructions to an agreed specification and price, I'm sure it would be worth their time and effort.  A couple of very popular classes have been introduced in the USA based on a single RTR kit.  I would prefer it to remain a UK based enterprise for ease of communication, spare parts availability, and just because it's UK!
4. The specification would need much thought as it needs to be simple, possibly using a pull-start engine, submerged drive, untuned engines, reasonable price, and designed to go at a realistic speed which would not, obviously, be as fast as any of the 'standard' classes - but this would not matter as the boats would be competing evenly with EXACTLY the same type of boat.
5. NO modifications which deviate from the original rules should be allowed.  Any rule change proposed should mean the abandonment of the class.  Racers who have the ability and money to make this class of boat faster should move on to the existing 'developmental' classes, leaving this class for racers who want the boats and competitions AS THEY ARE.

The racers
6. It is the responsibily of everyone who enjoys model boating, in whatever form, to try to encourage newcomers into the hobby.  With new blood we will grow, to the benefit of all.  It is essential that existing boaters 'join in' to promote the new class, by buying and racing them.  Then as others see the fun to be had, they will want to join in.  
7. It is no use having a class where only a couple of boats are bought/made. Organisers of events do not want valuable water time taken up by a couple of 'new class' racers who use all the event facilities (rescue, lapcounting, PA, OOD) for two or three boats.  WE need to get the boats out there racing first.  Then they will appear in articles in the Modelling press and begin to attract newcomers.  It would also be worthwhile to carry out a 'photo' build/set-up which could be published to help newcomers along with such 'gems' as racing tips, problem sorting, etc.

Previous attempts have all failed, although some worse than others, because of a number of factors, many of which I've indicated above
and I know there are others, but if we could address these 'challenges', I'm sure the time is ripe for the introduction of a TRUE 'starter' class.

Danny
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DaveMarles

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2007, 09:49:40 PM »

 Elmbridge members..Answer this... The Atlantor class started for beginners maybe but I would like to bet that most running in that class are out and out racers. John Melville, Alan Hazeldean, Graham Morgan etc etc.  How many new people has it brought in that couldnt afford something else or already run in another class?
  Don't get me wrong, I'm not against entry level but I don't believe thats the way to get new people in because in reality it doesnt happen. You might get a few pensioners such as those mentioned  8)  but kids dont want boats like that.   
 Get people to the lake, sell them decent secondhand racing boats if they can't afford new and then look after them and don't leave them to their own devices when they get stuck and especially don't give them a hard time if they drive erratically at first.
  Dave
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martno1fan

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2007, 10:54:48 PM »

dave dare i say your wrong kids are buying cheap crap nitro boats on ebay now!! surely a good entry level boat would be just the job ? they do it in the states and its been done over here now with sail boats like the micro magic?.it can be done it just needs a boat designer builder dealer to come up wih a good entry level boat that looks good and runs well.
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w3bby

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2007, 11:15:39 PM »

dave dare i say your wrong kids are buying cheap crap nitro boats on ebay now!!
Then the first thing they do is go on RCU and want to modify for more speed, end of cheap, standard beginner class........... ::) ::) ::)

omra85

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2007, 11:22:40 PM »

Exactly Ian - hence point 5 in my earlier reply.
Danny
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martno1fan

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2007, 11:28:16 PM »

dave dare i say your wrong kids are buying cheap crap nitro boats on ebay now!!
Then the first thing they do is go on RCU and want to modify for more speed, end of cheap, standard beginner class........... ::) ::) ::)

Ian i get what your saying but my point is they do buy boats that could be raced we just need some rules to keep things fair and equal.the wildthing is a good example its raced in the states and its a cheap boat to build using plywood and balsa.a small nitro(yes i said it  :o) engine with a pull start some cheap radio gear that most kids have nowadays anyway in that car they got fed up of when they smashed it into dads 4x4  ;D and away they go.failing that a cheap glass hull will do of which there are hundreds.
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glennb2006

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2007, 01:15:55 AM »

Oops - I think I will now post a seperate thread.

I am however encouraged by the fact that there are so many opinions.

Looks like Danny has some great ideas and thoughts based on previous experience.

Glenn
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Andy

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2007, 11:51:17 AM »

Dave, the Atlantor class was thought up as not so much as a beginners boat but
a class that was cheap enough to bring the club together with a common boat.
(they also race Club 500)
This does seem to have worked with most in the club having at least one.
If new members/beginners do get interested, most do,the boat is supplied with very complete
construction and set up details. And loads of help and advice from the (pensioners) seasoned racers.

As for kids it's normal that they want the fastest,my son much prefers driving my full race tuned Panther
strimmer boat.
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thedevil

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2007, 11:17:41 PM »

he we do cheap "club 40" racing at my local club byrn bach parc model boat club. lol im the raining champion so i need good competition   ;D
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ormer

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Re: cheap ic racing boats
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2007, 06:03:04 PM »

hi folks
i new to the board so would like to put my penny in this subject
over here in guernsey we run a small class no bigger then a .35  force 21 engines and the dynamite .32s were pretty popular and are in expensive also has to be a deep vee boat
and also just agreed to make a small class max of a 20 size engine as this seemed to be pretty reliable last year when some one put one these boats in to our small class
we noticed smaller boats seemed to offer more fun on our pond and have set up 3 diffrent courses for the smaller classes with an m shape a large oval and a reverse oval course so allowed 1 boat to enter 3 diffrent classes in an evenings racing
this seems to be pretty popular in in the power hungry members try to race

and in a small pond like ours power is nothing as with these boats there not huge boats similar to challenger 21s and sea ducers and if you put a os turbo in these boats damn they may be quick but you loose stability and thats when the others have the advantage so the cheaper engines seem more popular 81.00 average for a force or similar for a dynamite 32
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