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Author Topic: How do I drill  (Read 6058 times)

sentry

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How do I drill
« on: February 27, 2012, 09:18:28 pm »

Hi Guys,
 am stuck how do I drill a 1mm hole through my 4mm stainless steel rudder shafts do i need to buy special drills as my 1mm's are not getting anywhere Help please as its holding me up.
                                      regards Howard.
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John W E

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 09:36:12 pm »


 
   Hi Howard


drill slowly,and use lots of lube.

If you drill too fast then the stainless will harden and you will have failed miserably. %)

aye
john
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sentry

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 09:50:26 pm »

Thanks John,
 must say i,ve been running at the fastest speed always thought the littler the drill the faster the speed.
 regard Howard.
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triumphjon

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 09:53:59 pm »

you will also need a colbolt drill bit  in order to drill through stainless steel , normal hss bits end up melting ! ( yes i found out the hard way too , after melting several bits trying to put the sill covers on my old triumph pi
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CF-FZG

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2012, 12:13:13 am »

you will also need a colbolt drill bit  in order to drill through stainless steel , normal hss bits end up melting ! ( yes i found out the hard way too , after melting several bits trying to put the sill covers on my old triumph pi

I wouldn't say you need a cobalt to drill stainless, but it can make it easier ok2


Mark.
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tassie48

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2012, 04:17:52 am »

slow and easy tons of lube take you time and even pressure is the way we drill out stainless steel i use a 5 speed drill press and its ok tassie48
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derekwarner

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2012, 05:01:56 am »

GOOGLE ...."drilling stainless steel" ...you will find for 300 series grades of [austenatic] non rusting stainless steel, the recommended surface cutting speed is approx 65% of conventional grades of carbon steel [Grade 250, K1045 etc]

You will also find tables of recommended RPM to diameter......although constant slow feed is also critical

For stainless material I prefer that Green TREFELEX cutting paste over any any water or oil based cutting fluids

Throw away your current 1.0 mm HSS drill bit & start again with a new drill bit in the drill press chuck

Good luck.......Derek
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sentry

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2012, 05:23:36 pm »

Thanks for the replies guys so I brought 10 cobalt 1mm drills and tyred again this afternoon lots of lube and as slow as I could but Alas only 4 drills left and hardly made a mark so given up very deflated thinking of taking up knitting.or even worse taking the wife shopping.
                                            Regards Howard.
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2012, 08:14:48 pm »


May I ask why you want to drill a hole in your rudder shafts please.



ken

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malcolmfrary

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2012, 08:43:24 pm »

Apart from looking really good, any vital reason why the rudder shaft has to be stainless steel?  Just wondering - I've always used brass.
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sentry

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 09:28:50 pm »

thay came with the kit and it tells you to drill a 1mm hole through them so you can insert a 1mm pin before gluing the two white metal rudder half's together thinking of making the in brass or try and file a groove in them or will that make them weaker.
 Regards  Howard.
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derekwarner

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2012, 02:45:43 am »

Howard.......this thread however difficult for you is near impossible to resolve  >>:-(

1. you can anneal stainless steel material.....however the actual annealing temperature and cool down is critical
2. catch 22  ... {:-{ 300 series stainless has differing annealing temperatures to the 400 series materials
3. catch 22 again  <*< ...the only way to determine the grade you have is 'spark' it ....but this is a destrcutive analysis.......

Why not post an image of the components and the instructions........there may be an alternate solution........Derek
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malcolmfrary

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2012, 09:35:14 am »

At 4mm I suspect that going to brass will have no illl effects.  If its all going to be hidden inside the rudder and inside the hull, why worry?
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Colin Bishop

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2012, 09:51:43 am »

White metal and stainless steel is not exactly a good engineering solution. Personally I discard all white metal props, rudders and running gear and just use the components as patterns for brass replacement and as quite useful items of ballast.

The manufacturers use white metal because it is cheap. Here is a preview of a kit I am currently reviewing, showing the original rudder components and my much lighter substitute. The rudder post is brass tube and I drill two small holes through it which fit into filed slots in the rudder blade with brass wire pins inserted to provide mechanical strength before soldering the blade on. The upper part of the rudder post is then strengthened by inserting smaller diameter tube or rod to stiffen it. The tiller assembly is a brass collett from a plastic pulleywheel fitted with a grubscrew with the tiller arm made of brass sheet and soldered to it.

The detailing in the rudder blade is thin plywood epoxied on. I have also replaced the lower support which extends from the keel with a beefier brass piece.

Colin
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sentry

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2012, 04:35:13 pm »

Thanks all you guys i,ve bitten the bullet and gone and bought some 4mm brass rod think that will be a lot easier to drill, and have learnt a lot next time i,ll not even try to drill stainless steel (now how do I drill brass ) is it slow with no lube, 4mm with a 1mm hole thanks to all.
                   regards Howard.
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2012, 11:24:26 am »


Yes.  You have to drill Brass at a slow speed, dry. Also remove the drill to allow it it to cool down periodically.

If you could take some some pictures of your route through, it will assist others to follow your example.  :-))

ken


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CF-FZG

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2012, 12:16:47 pm »

White metal and stainless steel is not exactly a good engineering solution. Personally I discard all white metal props, rudders and running gear and just use the components as patterns for brass replacement and as quite useful items of ballast.

The manufacturers use white metal because it is cheap. Here is a preview of a kit I am currently reviewing, showing the original rudder components and my much lighter substitute.

Colin,

Sorry, but this is a pet hate of mine, (and many others), but why do reviewers substitute kit supplied parts when writing a review?

Surely, (unless the supplied parts are considered unsafe - and written as such in the review), the review should be about the kit and the parts supplied in the kit, not the fact that the reviewer doesn't like "white metal props, rudders and running gear and just uses the components as patterns for brass replacements".  This way tells the reader absolutely nothing about the parts supplied in the kit, apart from 'you don't like them'


Mark.
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Circlip

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2012, 12:26:03 pm »

While more modern compositions of "Monkey Metal" have been devised, perhaps Colin's obvious lack of experience means he thinks his new toy will look less dog eared over time by using proper materials?

   Regards  Ian.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2012, 01:16:19 pm »

Since I haven't written the review yet it seems a bit premature to criticise it! However, talking in more general terms and not about this specific model, if the parts supplied are not fit for purpose then they won't be used. White metal running gear is usually serviceable but it is nowhere up to the same standard as purpose designed gear, either in quality or in robustness.

In this particular instance the kit was not supplied as a freebie by the manufacturer, it was purchased at full price and is being reviewed as it would be supplied to any customer, in this case me! White metal is a real boon to manufacturers as it permits small production runs of various items very cheaply compared with injection moulded items. Sometimes this is not the ideal material to use although it will do the job. In this case, as in others, the manufacturer themselves offer uprated items such as brass props in place of white metal ones so I have no compunction about making changes of that nature. As far as the rudder arrangements are concerned, yes, those supplied in the kit will work as specified, but the nature of the materials used makes them heavy and prone to damage if, for example, the boat should hit a concrete bank in reverse, maybe because the radio has developed a glitch. I like my boats to be reasonably robust.

When writing reviews I always use the supplied parts if possible and when I do not then I explain exactly why so that the reader can make up their own mind whether to stick with the parts supplied or make improvements. The fact is that few kits are made 'straight out of the box' as most people like to customise and improve their models and some even use the kits as a basis for constructing something else entirely! It is also frequently necessary to make changes to accommodate the power setup and any extra functions the builder might want to install.

So no apologies from me I'm afraid, the review will describe the kit fairly and explain any departures from the supplied parts, or indeed the instructions, together with the pros and cons of doing so. The reader can then make up their own mind as to how they want to construct their own model.

Not quite sure what to make of Ian's comments about having little experience given that I have been building scale boats for 50 years, reviewing kits since the 1980s and over the last few years visited a number of the kit manufacturers to discuss their businesses and production techniques for a series of articles in Model Boats. Clearly, Ian has very high standards indeed!

Colin
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sentry

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2012, 01:32:25 pm »

Just to update you guys and more so the kind words of help, Just in from the work shop both holes now drilled and with the same drill bit no more broken ones. but more to the point with all the help from you guys I can now move forward and build again, Mayhemers to the rescue again thank you so much how could we be with out this wonderful site.  :-)).
                    regards Howard.
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CF-FZG

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2012, 01:56:25 pm »

Colin,

Thank you for guessing correctly that I was speaking generally and not singling you out :-)) and also for explaining why you change the supplied parts while still saying that, (in I guess most cases), there's nothing wrong with the supplied parts and they could be used.

Coming from a mainly model aircraft background I saw so many reviews that made me cringe either with the amount of ass-kissing platitudes directed at the makers rear end, (telling you what was wrong, how they'd had to replace the hardware pack because they were all the same rubbish and then saying what a wonderful kit it is and everyone should buy one <*<) or just plain 'wrong' - so it's a (pleasant) surprise to see an honest answer from a reviewer :-))


Mark.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: How do I drill
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2012, 02:22:07 pm »

Mark,

I always make the distinction between supplied parts that are not fit for purpose and those which will be OK but could be upgraded if the builder wishes. I try to put across just what the kit is like as delivered and then suggest possible options or easily made optional improvements. My approach is to give the builder some idea of what he/she can expect when purchasing a particular kit. Few kits are 100% perfect but problem areas can usually be overcome relatively easily so that difficulties such as Howard has experienced here can be resolved with a bit of advice from someone with a little more experience or who has already dealt with the problem.

Some other reviewers prefer to provide what is basically an expanded set of instructions with illustrations but I prefer to concentrate on what might be termed the 'pinch points' where construction can be a bit tricky or where there are options available to the builder. The instructions for the kit I'm presently making suggest two different ways of fitting the deck according to preference so I will be describing the pros cna cons of each and why I chose the option that I did.

I have never been put under any pressure to modify my reviews 'because the manufacturer wouldn't like it and has an advertising account with us' but it is also true that one should try to be constructive(!) when dealing with problem areas as the supplier is also keen to put right any problems found. So you do need to expose any faults but at the same time explain how they can be overcome or that the supplier has addressed them. It's in nobody's interest to take a completely negative approach.

Colin
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