Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: how to make black / dark coloured smoke  (Read 10430 times)

boyracer081119

  • Guest
how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« on: February 28, 2012, 02:44:04 PM »

hi guys i got a hunter systems smoke machine  ...... it works lovely .. but the smoke is white ......... how can i get it to pump out black smoke or at least darker than white any way ???? has any one got any ideas ???
Logged

cuppa

  • Guest
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2012, 03:21:29 PM »

A friend of mine used to have a coloured smoke system on a model aircraft. From memory he added dye to the smoke oil. Again from memory he used food oil and dye - I may be mistaken but I think it was about 15-20% dye content.
Logged

boyracer081119

  • Guest
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2012, 03:28:05 PM »

A friend of mine used to have a coloured smoke system on a model aircraft. From memory he added dye to the smoke oil. Again from memory he used food oil and dye - I may be mistaken but I think it was about 15-20% dye content.

ye i know about that system . but thats no good to me .... im wondering if any one has got the same system as i got ........ the system that your mate got is the same as the red arrows use . and they pump oily dye in to the exhaust manifold .... but seeing as im running electric then . that aint gonne work for me
Logged

HS93 (RIP)

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,949
  • I cannot spell , tough
  • Location: Rainhill UK
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2012, 03:37:24 PM »

Do a search on hear it has been talked about at lengh, but remember whatever you put in to make it black  will rain down on your boat.

Peter
Logged

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,894
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2012, 03:51:26 PM »

I've been pondering this problem for years now!
After talking to numerous chemists and school physics / chemistry teachers the unanimous verdict was tha making black smoke involves a fair amount of heat.
And I'm not going down that route.
However. Being an addicted heavy smoker of cigarettes and wishing to curb the habit, I've recently started "smoking" one of the "electric ciggies". (Quite pleasant, actually). But I got to thinking. All it takes to get some sort of smoke out of the thing is to give it a suck. The smoke is the same colour as that produced by the gizmos produced by the smoke machines....that is, it looks like steam.
Surely there must be a way to adapt these things to shove coloured smoke up a funnel?  BY.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

boyracer081119

  • Guest
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2012, 04:27:22 PM »

I've been pondering this problem for years now!
After talking to numerous chemists and school physics / chemistry teachers the unanimous verdict was tha making black smoke involves a fair amount of heat.
And I'm not going down that route.
However. Being an addicted heavy smoker of cigarettes and wishing to curb the habit, I've recently started "smoking" one of the "electric ciggies". (Quite pleasant, actually). But I got to thinking. All it takes to get some sort of smoke out of the thing is to give it a suck. The smoke is the same colour as that produced by the gizmos produced by the smoke machines....that is, it looks like steam.
Surely there must be a way to adapt these things to shove coloured smoke up a funnel?  BY.
well i have a thought ... if its just actually vapour ... i might try using black food colouring to the oil see if that makes a difference
Logged

cos918

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,145
  • Location: Abingdon
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2012, 07:01:09 PM »

If it could be done it would have been done. The amount of modlers that want a smoke genrator that makes black smoke is high. No one has of yet has been able to do it if you rule out very high temp exhaust injection systems and I do meen hot.

John

Ps black smoke on real boat is imcompleat combustion.
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,419
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 07:14:11 PM »

Quote
well i have a thought ... if its just actually vapour ... i might try using black food colouring to the oil see if that makes a difference

That's been tried - it's just another way of painting your model...
Logged

HUNTER

  • Guest
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2012, 10:57:54 AM »

Hi Guys,
The question of producing Black Smoke from a model Smoke Generator including the one that we manufacture at Hunter Systems has been around since the beginning of time, or it just feels like it. Almost every one that we sell in this Country has the same question behind it - does it produce black smoke? Strangely, the customers who buy from Germany and the rest of the world do not ask this question.
The answer is the same - no, not in less you add a certain substance that will. Unfortunately that substance is highly dangerous (cancer forming) and no way on Gods earth will we give that information out.
I have been a Pharmacologist for more years than I want to remember most of them spent in the pharmaceutical industry before I started Hunter Systems in1988. I think I am allowed to state the danger of adding components that may kill to our smoke distillate.
The smoke distillate that we produce is completely harmless if used correctly, but alas it produces white/grey smoke. Please live with that rather than the other option.
I have had people offer many ideas of additives including diesel, petrol, red diesel, wd40, baby oil, IPA, IMS, powdered lead, powdered aluminium, coal and even blood!! Most of these will either Flare Up, Blow Up or Explode and either kill or maim.
Please put this to bed and concentrate on your good model, I have tried with my knowledge and experience and can not do it. If there was a way, I would let everybody know.
Best Regards
Graham
Logged

boyracer081119

  • Guest
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2012, 12:22:13 PM »

Hi Guys,
The question of producing Black Smoke from a model Smoke Generator including the one that we manufacture at Hunter Systems has been around since the beginning of time, or it just feels like it. Almost every one that we sell in this Country has the same question behind it - does it produce black smoke? Strangely, the customers who buy from Germany and the rest of the world do not ask this question.
The answer is the same - no, not in less you add a certain substance that will. Unfortunately that substance is highly dangerous (cancer forming) and no way on Gods earth will we give that information out.
I have been a Pharmacologist for more years than I want to remember most of them spent in the pharmaceutical industry before I started Hunter Systems in1988. I think I am allowed to state the danger of adding components that may kill to our smoke distillate.
The smoke distillate that we produce is completely harmless if used correctly, but alas it produces white/grey smoke. Please live with that rather than the other option.
I have had people offer many ideas of additives including diesel, petrol, red diesel, wd40, baby oil, IPA, IMS, powdered lead, powdered aluminium, coal and even blood!! Most of these will either Flare Up, Blow Up or Explode and either kill or maim.
Please put this to bed and concentrate on your good model, I have tried with my knowledge and experience and can not do it. If there was a way, I would let everybody know.
Best Regards
Graham


thanx for that my friend ... good night theory........ hello building my model !!!!!!!
Logged

essex2visuvesi

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,134
  • Location: Finland, England, Finland!
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2012, 01:27:21 PM »

Black smoke seems to be the Holy grail of many a modelling fraternity
The tankies want it as do the diesel train boys
Logged
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity
Proud member of the OAM  (Order of the Armchair Modeller)
Junior member of the OGG  (Order of the Grumpy Git)

red181

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,742
  • Location: Wirral
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2012, 07:02:58 PM »

I achieved it once......I use a hot wire type of smoker, I forgot to top the oil up, when the black smoke came it was the hull smouldering as the metal box for the smoker was a bit hot! :embarrassed:

so now I have given up with that idea, tried coal dust, lead, dyes,baby oil, disco fluid, engine oil (clean and dirty) diesel oil, power steering fluid, gearbox oil, cooking oil, wood shavings, loft insulation, it is as stated the holy grail and when finally someone does achieve it we will probably find out the meaning of life :}
Logged

boyracer081119

  • Guest
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2012, 11:13:26 PM »

it is as stated the holy grail and when finally someone does achieve it we will probably find out the meaning of life :}

 :o :o :o :-)) :-)) :-))             <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:(
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,419
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2012, 11:24:48 PM »

Blackness in smoke is due to particulates.

Given the global desire to reduce pollution, why is it that model boaters are so keen to increase it?
Logged

NickKK

  • Guest
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2012, 12:02:55 AM »

More water to sail in ... warmer weather for all year round sailing ... coffee that won't go through you  on cold  mornings ... oh!! no more cold mornings
Logged

ukmike

  • Guest
Black Diesel engine smoke
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2012, 11:30:24 AM »

There are several ways to make smoke fluid to produce White / Light Grey smoke when heated as well as the commercial smoke machine fluids in various colours, alas, not black.

But, I would like to make the black sooty stuff produced by marine diesels, (and a lot of out of tune road vehicles ), particularly the turbocharged examples.

Does anyone know what fluid, ( if any ), can be heated to do this ? Bearing in mind that I would have to fashion a heater to achieve the probably very high temps to do this.

Diesel its self only makes whitish smoke at the pressures that I can achieve, I'm thinking that maybe very high pressures and temps are what are required, as in the internal combustion engine.

Possibly not doable in a model, especially an electric powered one.

But maybe you know better !! Or is this just another "No Brainer" question ?

Mike.
Logged

essex2visuvesi

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,134
  • Location: Finland, England, Finland!
Re: Black Diesel engine smoke
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2012, 12:04:04 PM »

Good luck..... you are asking for the holy grail of most RC modellers and model railway enthusiasts.

Its not possible to do safely at a sensible price
Logged
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity
Proud member of the OAM  (Order of the Armchair Modeller)
Junior member of the OGG  (Order of the Grumpy Git)

rmaddock

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,047
  • Location: The Lake District, U of K.
Re: Black Diesel engine smoke
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2012, 12:11:57 PM »

I think you might be out of luck Mike. This question seems to come up again and again without satisfactory resolution.
Logged

geoff p

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
  • Location: Aranyaprathet, Thailand
    • Purple Tiger
Re: Black Diesel engine smoke
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2012, 12:34:18 PM »

Since the black reek is carbon = unburnt fuel being wasted, why on earth would you want to mimic such waste?

However, in my quest for some clean-burning methyl-alcohol (meths) for a model engine I'm building, I was offered a can of Ronson Lighter Fluid.  The can states that it contains naptha.

And it reeks!  In a few minutes the engine was covered in black.  (It's a flame-licker, External combustion engine so the flame, soot an' all, is just outside the cylinder-head.)

I don't know if Ronson fluid is still available in UK - or if your version contains naptha - but I made up a simple can-with-a-wick.  And if you direct that into a thin metal smokestack it just might work.

Geoff
Thailand
Logged

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,295
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2012, 12:53:33 PM »

Topics merged
Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!

Neil

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,377
  • Location: near Fleetwood
Re: Black Diesel engine smoke
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2012, 01:56:35 PM »

Since the black reek is carbon = unburnt fuel being wasted, why on earth would you want to mimic such waste?

Geoff
Thailand


that question's just about as profound as asking why hundreds of modellers each year want to build a model Titanic, a ship that sank on her maiden voyage...........because they want to, and because it is realistic..............who bothers about the politically "green effect" when they model ships................I am certainly not that politically correct, anc certainly don't mind admitting it!! %% %% %%
Logged

ukmike

  • Guest
Re: Black Diesel engine smoke
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2012, 02:43:39 PM »

Since the black reek is carbon = unburnt fuel being wasted, why on earth would you want to mimic such waste?

However, in my quest for some clean-burning methyl-alcohol (meths) for a model engine I'm building, I was offered a can of Ronson Lighter Fluid.  The can states that it contains naptha.

And it reeks!  In a few minutes the engine was covered in black.  (It's a flame-licker, External combustion engine so the flame, soot an' all, is just outside the cylinder-head.)

I don't know if Ronson fluid is still available in UK - or if your version contains naptha - but I made up a simple can-with-a-wick.  And if you direct that into a thin metal smokestack it just might work.

Geoff
Thailand


Hi Geoff.

Your thoughts about the sooty candle flame and also of course the paraffin lamp wick set too high both produce copious amounts of Black smoke, may investigate that.

Another source is the flame from Acetylene, that also produces massive amounts of very black smoke and lots of soot. Carbide of Calcium is a source of Acetylene when mixed with a little water I believe,

will look at that also.

Thanks for reminding me of that.

Mike.
Logged

ukmike

  • Guest
Re: Black Diesel engine smoke
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2012, 08:01:46 PM »

Good luck..... you are asking for the holy grail of most RC modellers and model railway enthusiasts.

Its not possible to do safely at a sensible price

Hi Gary.

The holy grail may have just arrived in Gorleston on Sea.

Laptop fans, Acetylene gas and a couple of Piezo igniters seems to have done the trick.

Mike.
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,419
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2012, 04:19:13 PM »

You could try this, must have been pretty realistic. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-18719962

Colin
Logged

Martin [Admin]

  • Administrator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,295
  • Location: Peterborough, UK
    • Model Boat Mayhem
Re: how to make black / dark coloured smoke
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2012, 05:07:01 PM »

Logged
"This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!"    -   Mayhem FaceBook Group!
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up