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Author Topic: Engel submarine Type 212A  (Read 9439 times)

bobk

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Engel submarine Type 212A
« on: March 03, 2012, 04:18:14 PM »

Engel submarine Type 212A

I am sure many have built these so do not intend to create a build log.  I needed to learn more about building and operating submarines for another project, and this boat was highly recommended.  Got it at Westbourne yesterday and spent the evening reading the well detailed instruction booklet twice.  No rush, but it goes together beautifully. 
Picture below shows I am a fair way into the Tech Rack already. 


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Subculture

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2012, 04:45:30 PM »

Only one person I know of on here has built one, and that's Ramesh (Mankster). I'm sure it will interest people to see how they clip together, I think this boat is a great model for beginners and seasoned submarine modellers alike.

The only issue some people have had with this boat is with the electronic piston tank control board, and if memory serves me correctly it was tried in with the pressure switch. Have a word with Ramesh about that.

bijou

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2012, 04:51:49 PM »

Hi,@bobk
I wheel watch every post of You with hope I wheel find some answer to my questions regarding Piston tank function.
Even know,after all most a year since I have the kit I wasn't able to solve NUMEROUS glitches of it!. <:(  <*<.
So PLEASE post every move You make maybe...maybe I wheel find THE ANSWERS.
And by the way:Congratulation for the Acquisition. :-))


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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2012, 05:10:16 PM »

bobk

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2012, 05:18:32 PM »

You are right, it almost just clips together.  I am taking it slowly, absorbing the detailed info on care needed with alignment and fitting of certain parts.  A lot going on between the end of the piston tank and the control board requiring precise assembly alignments etc.

Technically it is neat concept.  The whole tech rack is ‘dry’ and the resin cast hull is the watertight compartment which locks together like a thermos flask.  The periscopes are simply operated by a small piston and tube connected into the hull.  As internal air pressure increases on diving the scopes pop up.  That has given me an idea for another sub (Slap wrist, get that one working first !)

Interesting link.  Thanks.

Sorry to hear you’ve had problems Bijou.  At the moment I am just assembling it, but will try to take more pictures as I go.
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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2012, 05:51:01 PM »

The 212, Lafayette and Type VII are all newer designed kits based on cylindrical pressure hulls, and they have nice CNC cut items which ensures accuracy and self-jigging designs.

bijou

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2012, 06:22:34 PM »

Have you tried following the advice in this thread?-

http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10608&start=0&hilit=engel+212

HI,I wheel. :-)) and I wheel keep you on post about it!.
THANK YOU
                 MARIUS
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bijou

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2012, 06:27:26 PM »

@SUBCULTURE,
I allready did these:"German instruction manual they instruct you to fit a ferrite ring to the wiring to reduce noise...", but unfortunateley for me had NO Result!.  :((  >:-o
MARIUS
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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2012, 06:42:08 PM »

Okay. Have you tried the following-

1. Disconnecting the pressure sensor altogether.
2. Try another channel on the receiver.
3. Try another receiver (if you have a spare).
4. Are you using a BEC, or a separate battery pack?
5. Try a different ESC (if you have a spare).
6. Could be a bad board, Engel might replace?

bijou

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2012, 09:00:48 PM »

@Subculture,
1" OK,
2" OK,
3" I have and I wheel,
4" I have a separate battery pack for the ballast tank/Receiver,
5" OK I wheel,
6" Unfortunately I allready had a problem with DLx Pitch controller witch had been changed and after such long time since  I have the Model I don't think is possible to convince them to give me another board(can assume that I damaged the product),
Thank You and Good Knight
                     MARIUS
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bobk

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2012, 12:41:10 AM »

A few more photos of the Type 212A tech rack being assembled

View of the front section, with battery compartment and pressure switch


Detail of the rear of the piston tank and control circuit board.  Note piston travel limit microswitches.


The only drilling required so far.  Box for power connectors and receiver mounting.  1.5mm holes for screw fixings, spotted through from top cover holes.


I am a bit stuck at the moment as the servos appear too small.  They sandwich between two of the CNC cut circular platforms where the servo lugs locate in slots.
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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 01:50:49 PM »

The Engel site says the rack is designed exclusively for the Robbe MG500 mini servo.

Is that what you're using?

I would think just about any mini servo would be okay for this boat, but you will probably have to adapt the rack slightly, because I think the Robbe servos are an odd size.

bobk

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2012, 05:39:02 PM »

FS 500 MG is indeed what the instructions quote, but I came home with Futaba S3154's.  Far too small.  They were not in the kit, but amongst additional parts bought for it at the time.  These should neatly slot into place, clamped between two flames 30 mm apart with slots for servo lugs, so it's best if I get the ones Engel designed it for or at least servos dimesionally similar.  No worries.  Thanks for telling me it is a Robbe.

The technical authoring starts off superb, but does slope off about 2/3 the way through, leaving you to try to figure how some key bits go.
eg:  Big tube from the piston tank is for water and so must terminate on the wet side of the bulkhead, where there a brass tube of the right diameter.  Just an extra run of tube not mentioned.  The same with the PVC tube from the pressure switch (air or water pressure?) ends in a brass tube halfway along the tech frame.  Keep re-reading the booklet for clues !
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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2012, 06:06:38 PM »

They are weeny little servos, very torquey though as they're digital, which you don't need really. Is that what Westbourne Models recommended for the kit?

I must say I'm confused by Engels rationale that metal geared servos are necessary with this model. The MG500's seem like overkill to me.

The pressure switches are diaphragm based, they would need to be connected externally, and as the boat dives deeper it will compress the air bubble in the tube, shifting the diaphragm and eventually throwing the switch inside. They're set for about 6 feet, so if you want to plumb the depths, you should disconnect it altogether.

The Engel instructions may have one or two omissions, but they're more comprehensive than most.

bobk

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2012, 06:37:26 PM »

No complaints.  The manual is one of the best I've seen outside MOD applications.  The engineering inside is precise and robust, which I guess their servo choice reflects.  I will call Westbourne Monday, I have the dimensions required. He has built an Engel Type VII (pause for drooling! - far too big for my car).  I am sure I remember seiing a 212A at St Albans last year. 
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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2012, 06:46:42 PM »

Yes, that was Ramesh's. Did you get the special combined mixer/leveller with the kit too?

bobk

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2012, 06:55:44 PM »

Yes, that was Ramesh's. Did you get the special combined mixer/leveller with the kit too?

No, but he said I could order it if I found I needed it.  I saw it, it is very small.
I am intrigued with the X tail arrangement
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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2012, 07:29:33 PM »

I think you might need it, not just for the levelling, but also to limit the servo throws on this boat. Hopefully Ramesh will chip in here and confirm or deny that.

If not, you will most certainly need an electronic mixer to combine the pitch and rudder servo action, as unlike a cruciform tail, x-tail control surfaces work in combination.



bijou

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2012, 09:17:05 PM »

I have so many question but i wheel start with pictures(by the way:how can I ad many pictures at once?)






MARIUS
 
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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2012, 10:22:57 AM »

To add many images at once, just click on the 'many images' option when the postimage window opens.

Regarding your pictures you shouldn't require the other side of those servo arms, the boat doesn't employ 'push-pull' linkages.

bijou

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2012, 02:22:25 PM »

HI,
In the mean time I had to charge the Acc and then I wheel tray what @Subculture said.
MARIUS
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bijou

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2012, 02:36:22 PM »

"If not, you will most certainly need an electronic mixer to combine the pitch and rudder servo action, as unlike a cruciform tail, x-tail control surfaces work in combination."
I was bought for the X tail these,from "Engell" along with the kit:

but honestly even Know I don't figure at out how to make the connection to the servo in order to obtain the correct movement of the X tails!.  {:-{
as for the servo I bought "HI-Tec"HS-82MG MORE cheapper and perfect suitable for the SPACE.
Regards MARIUS
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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2012, 05:07:57 PM »

Regarding insufficient space for the ESC, you may have to choose another make/model of controller.

With the leveller/mixer, you have two leads that plug in the receiver channels, one will go in the channel used for rudder, the other for pitch.

There are pin connectors which lead to the two servos and the motor connectors for the reversing function on this controller.

The controller is calibrated using the neutral button (use a spirit level to detect horizontal) and the strength of the levelling is taken care of with the 'sensor' pot.

bijou

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2012, 07:38:37 PM »

The ESC,is EXACTLY the one recommended by ENGELL.

(these is a Copy from MANUAL), <*<

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Re: Engel submarine Type 212A
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2012, 08:10:35 PM »

Well it fits, but only just.
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