Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine  (Read 6256 times)

Simmonsa

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9

Hi all, my name is Anthony Simmons and I am a newcomer to this forum and in need of some advise.

I have just completed my first model boat build of the president Fairey Huntsman 46" all wood. While building the model I took the choice of installing a 10cc ASP engine brought new from "Just engines". My problem is the engine has such a high compression I am struggling to turn it over when starting. I am not sure if this is just because the engine is new. On my first attemts to start it I used an electric starter which was supposed to be upto 10cc. Unfortunatly this would not even turn the engine over a complete revolution. As soon as the engine started to compress the starter gave up and started smoking. Most of you will probably be thinking that the engine was flooded and locking up but this was not the case. Various times I removed the glow plug to check this. Soon after many attemts my new electric starter was burnt out. My second attemt I decided to use my trusty black and decker drill with the starting pulley from my burnt out electric starter held in the chuck. This seemed slightly better but I still struggled to turn the engine over a complete revolution. This time my problem was not the black and decker turning it was the belt slipping. Having made sure the belt and flywheel were clean and not greasy I then tried again but still found it very difficult to turn the engine over. I was having to pull on the drill very hard to keep the tension up but still no success.  This really worries me as I do not want to put to much stress on the mountings and boat structure. Having scratched my head and plenty of cups of tea later  I decided to loosen the glow plug slightly to lower the compression, I know this should not be done and is a health and saftey risk but felt it was worth a try. This time the engine burst into life and I quickly re tightend the glow plug.  The engine ran for about five minutes. Because the engine is new I then let it cooled down and tried to start it again with the glow plug tight this time but found I had the same old problem. Please if any one has any advise on what I can do I would be very gratefull. I attacted some pictures of the boat for you all to see.











Logged

gwa84the2nd

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
  • Location: east riding of yourkshire hull
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2012, 11:58:20 PM »

hi i have one of thease engines and a nc 61 ther all verry tight engines and i need to slaken the glow plug to get them started in the nitro world with larger engine this is common practice and i wouldent worry about it  :-))

the other thing of note is please dont run the engine without cooling water flowinth throw the head as this is a fast track way to burning your engine out prematurly you can esaly set up a buket of water with some fuel line tube syphoning from the buket placed hiyer then the model pluged into the cylinder head and also dont rev the engine more then half way unloaded for eny more then a quick burst to check your mixture setings

enything els please dont hesatate to ask and welcome to the fourum bud nice to sea a clasic runing nitro and not converted to lekky lol  :}
Logged

essex2visuvesi

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,146
  • Location: Finland, England, Finland!
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2012, 06:54:17 AM »

Very nice job you have done there.  I hope mine comes out half as nice

Im about to start a 36" fibreglass hull kit with brushless motor
Logged
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity
Proud member of the OAM  (Order of the Armchair Modeller)
Junior member of the OGG  (Order of the Grumpy Git)

Bill D203

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,974
  • not long now!!
  • Location: Sunny Stevenage
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2012, 05:14:20 PM »

I have had a SC 61 engine and you do need a GOOD starter not one of these cheap 15.00 jobbys. Sullivane is the starter I think, running on 24v. You will need to slackern of the glowpulg till it starts then pull it down when it is running.  The other thing to look out for is the engine bearings ! It is a good engine but a new set of SKF type bearings will make it last along time.
My starter was made from a Honda motor bike starter motor and a 12v jell battery. now that will start most model engines up. i used the cone/pulley from my old burnt out starter and beefed up the switch and it works just fine and cost me 15.00 on ebay

By the way your boat look great well done. :-))
Logged
Roll On Mayday. Im off for a pint.   How Much!!!   WHEN do you need it!     No dear!    Yes dear??   Wot Now???  soon to be EX Chairman SMBC

Simmonsa

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2012, 08:49:02 PM »

Hi all.

Many thanks for the advise. It looks like slackening the glow plug is the way to go with a decent starter.

On the subject of starters has any one ever used a cordless drill for starting? I would be interested to find out if they are suitable or wether I should spend my money on a decent geared starter. Given the choice I would prefer to buy a decent cordless drill.

Also can any one advise me on the exhaust in my boat. As this is my first build I may have made a slight booby. I have run the exhaust low down in the boat using copper pipe. When it reaches the stern I have used a right angle joint going vertical to bring the exhaust in line with the silencers. My worry is that any unburnt oil or fuel from the engine will sit in the exhaust and not be able to escape causing a blockage and poor running. Any further advise on this would be great. :-) Please see photo.

Logged

triumphjon

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 790
  • Location: portsmouth , hampshire
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2012, 07:51:12 AM »

from memory of my own huntsman 46" we ran an hp 61 , later a merco 61 , with a swept manifold and tuned pipe with watercooling from prestwich models , the original twin rear silencer was removed as it created too much back presssure , the turning was always interesting as with a single shaft the model tends to roll quite a bit , another memmber with the same boat treid fitting extra wide chine rails which didnt help ! ive still got a huntsman although thess days its the smaller 31 inch hull and powered by twin electric motors . hope you have as much fun with your big ic one as we did many years ago ? jon
Logged

olly4950

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 108
  • Location: Telford
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2012, 02:28:06 PM »

Hi,
I have a 40 odd year old wooden Fairey Huntsman that used to be powered by a Merco 61, decided to change her to a brushless on a pulley gearbox.

For me I was fed up of the boat stopping all the time. Now I can easily get 20mins relaxing boating out of her and she goes at approx 14mph.
Others on this forum can go faster with there brushless, just got to tweek mine a little bit.

Regards

olly4950
Logged

Danny

  • Gorleston Model Boat Club
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 305
  • Location: Lowestoft, Suffolk
    • Gorleston MBC
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2012, 10:39:27 PM »

Hi Anthony
I race an ASP and can confirm that they are extremely tight when new. They get slightly better when run in, but not much!  I have used a motorbike starter motor (Honda 250 again) since 1985.  It will start most engines on 12V, but when I started racing CMB90's, I upped the voltage to 24V (bear in mind that this is for brief periods only as, once set up, any engine should start within seconds).  This starter WILL start a new ASP 46, but only with the plug loosened a turn.  From a safety point of view, once the engine fires, get the plug spanner on it quickly and tighten it up again.
Also - NEVER work over the top of the engine! If engine is running and the plug is loose, vibration will unscrew it fully - it then comes out like a bullet, so don't be in the firing line!!
If you don't want to bother with the motorbike starter motor option, a Sullivan Dynatron on 24V will start it, but they're not cheap.
Cheers
Danny

Simmonsa

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2012, 09:38:24 PM »

Many thanks for all the advise its much appreciated.

I am not sure if I will splash out the cash to get the Sullivan starter as it really is quite expensive. Can anybody recommend a 12volt motorbike starter that would start my engine(ASP 0.61) at a reasonable price. I have a lathe so modifying it to fit a starting pulley would not be to much of a problem. I brought a leather cord to start the engine by hand just to see how easy it would be and to test the boat at the lake. Although I could start the engine ok found it quite hard work.

You can view the boat in the lake from the link below. Did not give the boat to much stick as engine is still running in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cogxkxpWYo4

Regards
Anthony
Logged

craig dickson

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 335
  • Location: Brigg North Lincolnshire United Kingdom
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2012, 06:24:14 PM »

Hi Anthony

Firstly thanks for sharing the clip. Your boat looks fantastic and once you have that engine running flat out be prepared for a lot of speed and excitement!

On the starter front, the new item on the Prestwich Model Boats site looks interesting a 12volt geared starter and way cheaper than a Dynatron:

Worth considering perhaps?

http://www.prestwich.ndirect.co.uk/engine_equipment.htm

Cheers
Craig :-))
Logged
Forget all insults, always remember compliments.

Simmonsa

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2012, 09:23:04 AM »

Many thanks Craig for the advise. I will consider the cheaper geared starter from prestwich. If anyone has had any experience with these starters I would really like to know.  Regards Anthony.
Logged

gwa84the2nd

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
  • Location: east riding of yourkshire hull
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2012, 07:58:25 PM »

ive seen one in axtion ad it strugeld to start a 61 the problem isent the torqe it just dousent spin the engine fast enuff  :((
Logged

Simmonsa

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2012, 09:55:42 PM »

Thanks for the advise. I think a motor bike starter is probably the cheapest option. Just not sure what type to get. 
Logged

Danny

  • Gorleston Model Boat Club
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 305
  • Location: Lowestoft, Suffolk
    • Gorleston MBC
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2012, 05:36:59 PM »

Hi Anthony
Just pop down to your local motorbike breakers and see what they have cheap!  You will probably be able to get one about 100+ mm long and around 60/70 mm diameter (ask for one about the size of a tin of beans - they'll understand that!!).  It should have a couple of bolts right through the casing from end to end which you can extend using threaded rod (B&Q). You can then use the extended rods to mount your handle (metal of your ok with that, or ply and dowel if its easier.  It will also have a splined output shaft, so you will need to turn up a small diam pulley to fit.  As the motor will spin fast, make the pulley as small as possible to give you the best torque, but not too small so as to give poor grip for the belt. About the size of an ordinary starter pulley (or a bit smaller) should do.
And there you go - happy for the next ten years or more! :-)
Cheers
Danny

essex2visuvesi

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,146
  • Location: Finland, England, Finland!
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2012, 07:00:43 PM »

I have one from a Belarus Tractor if its any use?  {-)
Logged
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity
Proud member of the OAM  (Order of the Armchair Modeller)
Junior member of the OGG  (Order of the Grumpy Git)

Simmonsa

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2012, 09:18:49 PM »

Cheers for the advise.

Just won a bike starter motor on ebay so looking forward to getting it delivered. I will keep you all informed on the progress of converting it. If this doesn't work then I may take up the offer on the Belarus tractor starter!  {-)

Regards
Anthony
Logged

Simmonsa

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2012, 08:14:27 PM »

Success at last :D

Won second hand bike starter on ebay for 0.99p fitted pulley and "Hey Presto" we have a decent starter that works really well. No need to loosen glow plug either. Thats real value for money! I think the starter is designed for 6 volts but seems to work well on 12 volts. Its only for a short periods of time so hoping that it will last. Even if it lasts a year thats still great value. I would seriously recommend this to others who may have had similar problems. All I need now is a heavy duty on off switch and my problems are solved. Thanks again for all the advise and help you guys have given me.  

Logged

gwa84the2nd

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
  • Location: east riding of yourkshire hull
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2012, 02:53:10 AM »

did you have to machine enything for this  :-))
Logged

essex2visuvesi

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,146
  • Location: Finland, England, Finland!
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2012, 04:32:07 AM »

>Good thing you got it working as I think the tractor starter would have been a bit heavy to carry to the lake lol
Logged
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity
Proud member of the OAM  (Order of the Armchair Modeller)
Junior member of the OGG  (Order of the Grumpy Git)

Simmonsa

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2012, 09:32:58 PM »

Hi.

The starter had a splined shaft so had to machine the pulley to fit the splines. Also drilled and tapped an M5 hole for grub screw which tightens up in between splines so there is no chance of the pulley coming loose.

Today I have just sorted out a solenoid and switch so when wired up I should have a really decent starter.

 %%

Logged

gwa84the2nd

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
  • Location: east riding of yourkshire hull
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2012, 03:00:00 AM »

would you be wiling to make another if this one is sucsesfull  :-))
Logged

Danny

  • Gorleston Model Boat Club
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 305
  • Location: Lowestoft, Suffolk
    • Gorleston MBC
Re: Fairey Huntsman 46" Advise required on starting glow engine
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2012, 07:01:05 AM »

Hi Anthony
To skip using a solenoid and keep things a bit neater, I am using a heavy duty push button switch form CPC -
http://cpc.farnell.com/multicomp/ppsw-23bg/switch-pb-12vdc-50a-grn-nomarks/dp/SW03651?in_merch=New%20Products&MER=e-bb45-00001002
It seems to be up to the job so far!
Also, be sure to use thick wire (I'm using 4mm diam multi-strand speaker wire for flexibility) with good crimped connections.  Even HD battery clips - as any "link" without a strong connection will get warm  :-))
Glad you've got sorted.
Cheers
Danny 
Pages: [1]   Go Up