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Author Topic: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.  (Read 63555 times)

Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #175 on: October 04, 2012, 08:20:35 PM »

Hi, Martin.
Nope. No guns. I believe that we were at peace in 1919....so this was just an Admirals "look at lucky me" thingy.
Regards. Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #176 on: October 22, 2012, 05:36:49 PM »

Just thought that I’d write down the “bought-in”, helped with items on this model. (so far).
Raw materials excluded….we all have to buy stuff.
All the rest, mistakes and all are all my own efforts….
1.   The brass funnel. Kindly made and donated by Jake Kelso of TMBC.
2.   Scuttle rims and glasses are by RM Models (still Polish?).
3.   Boathooks. The brass ends were made for me by Barry McKay.
4.   Stanchions are bought from James Lane.
5.   Brass “Dolphins” made and cast by a local Jeweller.
6.   Hull. A joint effort. I made the original “plug” and Kim McLean of Clyde Models made the mould and laid up the final hull.
7.   Cowl Vents.  Another joint effort. I made the master plugs and Jim Lane used his big vac-former to produce the shells. Then I had to get them both to look presentable.
“Stuff” has been progressing. Although not quite as slow as a “snails-pace”, certainly not as fast as that of a cockroach.  As you might have gathered, I’ve been a bit discombobulated (always wanted to use that word, but never really had the opportunity!) due to the unexpected recovery of “Hunan” after her 11 year voyage into parts unknown.
But, as always, cost has escalated. That was £20 for a HiTec  “Half Height”“Retract” servo for the rudder. The space and hull form beneath the area aft of the cabin is very restricted. But this gizmo seems to fit OK.
So now up to £580.
As of the 20th Oct. I’m now well into the 2nd week of trying to get the stern gratings to look and fit as I’d like. There are 4 of them covering an area of  5.5” x  5.5”. And shaped to fit into the odd shaped stern area. And the whole caboodle has to be removable to allow access to the steering gear. All very interesting but so time consuming.
More expense…only £13 this time ( just sundries like a new razor-saw blade, sanding discs and the like)…but that’s now £595 (I round up or down to the nearest £5).
I don’t for one moment expect that you will, but if you check back on where the money went you’ll probably find that a fair proportion of it was spent on “sundries”, “stuff” you need to buy to keep you going. This is partly the reason for this exercise.
     Over the years I’ve spoken to many modellers who massively underestimate just how much a model has actually cost to build. And this includes Kit builders.

     After many days of cogitation I began to realise that there was no “easy” way to get the stern gratings to fit and also be removable. The actual construction of the gratings was simple enough given that all the bits were “pre-made”. But, naturally enough, they were made to be made into a regular square cornered shape. Mine aren’t. So each slat had to be glued in place to avoid them lifting when being cut and shaped. Then came the problem of getting the completed unit to fit into the deck without simply dropping through into the hull. So a secondary “landing” had to be made but fixed at a level that would allow the gratings to stand proud of the unplanked deck by 1/16”. What a fiddle that was.
Then the edge trim surround had to be addressed. In no way could I get non-ply timber to go around the curve at the aft end. Nothing for it but to cut the side pieces out of the solid. The 3 enclosed pics should show you my solution to the problem. Final rubbing down and blending in will be done once the deck is planked.
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Capt Podge

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #177 on: October 22, 2012, 06:38:58 PM »

Agree with you there Bryan, the photographs do indeed help us to understand the problem and subsequent solution - nice one !  O0

A crackin' job that - well done that man  :-))

Regards,

Ray.
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #178 on: October 22, 2012, 08:17:44 PM »


What a pleasure to watch Brian.   :}   


Ken
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #179 on: October 25, 2012, 06:46:51 PM »

I suppose that the efforts of the last couple of weeks work was just “displacement work”. OK, it had to be done eventually, but the more important job has always been the forward bulwarks. Quite frankly, I’ve been at a loss as to how to make and secure them. Hoping for divine intervention hasn’t worked. Nor has the hoped for flash of inspiration yet to occur. Cutting the things to shape is no problem. Getting them to sit vertically is. On the model they will be 14.5” long (and only 1” high). But the hull form ranges from vertical at the bows to nowhere near vertical further back. Just sticking them to the top of the hull would sort of work, but would be as weak as rice paper. Internal bracing is obviously called for.
    No divine inspiration….but sheer desperation seems to have given me the answer. I figured that Aralditing strips of 1/32” ply to the inside of the hull and projecting up by 1” (the height of the bulwarks) with a slight “score” line at deck level, to let me put a slight bend into the strips to get the upper part vertical might do the trick. I appreciate that this score line is a potential weak point, But I reckon that when the underdeck and planking is butted up (total depth of 1/8”) that should bolster the area a bit.
The eagle-eyed among you will notice that the 2nd strip from for’d has slipped a bit. But I think I can live with that.
I used the “24hr “ Araldite for this little lot…so everything ground to a halt.
Toddled off to the Model Shop to fill in a bit of time, but mainly to exchange the servo I bought the other day for one that doesn’t slap through 180* (the “Retract” item). And then more expense. £11 for rudder tiller arms and ball joint connections (I prefer a “push-pull” system to single levers). Halfords for more paint and Araldite…another £11.
   Now up to £615. All mounting up! But it’s supposed to be “fun”; right?
Shaping and placing the bulwark sides was no real problem, but which way should the grain of the ply run? Both seemed to work OK, but eventually I decided that “crossgrain was ultimately better. I wasn’t prepared for the weight of the clamps (light as they are) to tend to pull the side panel out of the vertical. Cogitate.
Simple solution, Lie the hull on its side and let the clamps own leverage keep the thing upright. So that’s it for another 18 hours or so. See what happens then!.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #180 on: October 30, 2012, 05:06:35 PM »

Well, that worked. Amazing how strong 2 layers of 1/32” ply can be! But I need a 3rd layer . The finishing one. This layer needs to be cut more accurately than the other 2, and it also needs a “cut-out” to show where the fairleads will fit. I’ve put this 3rd layer on with a contact adhesive. Mainly because I’ve run out of the “Slow” Araldite, and didn’t trust the “Rapid” not to set before I’d got the strake positioned and clamped. If it doesn’t work, then so be it.
Three layers of 1/32nd ply is still only about 1.025” at this scale, so it shouldn’t look overscale. Both inside and outside of the bulwarks will be clad with plasticard….makes painting easier! That will probably be done with double-sided tape. But I also need this extra bit of thickness to give a better “landing” area for the bulwark capping. But I’ll get to that eventually.
The “internal” bulwark bracing pieces looked a real mess in the previous post. But now the gaps have been filled with 1/32” ply to give a reasonably smooth interior finish. These will be left “bare” until I’ve sprayed the exterior. Avoids overspray colour …White over dark blue is not a good idea.
           Too much thought can cause a brain overload. That leads to procrastination. Something I never suffered from in my “working life”, but it becomes almost endemic when model building. “What will this affect if I do such’n’such?” Or, “What is the downside of doing that?” There comes a point when the brain just makes up its own mind and gets on with it. Such was the case when it came to fitting the 3rd of the bulwark layers. Contact adhesive this time. Worked a treat.
    But one of the most difficult tasks (to my mind) was to be the fixing down of the main deck.
In general I suppose it’s normal to fit the deck within the boundaries of the hull. At least, that’s the way I’ve always done it. But not this time. This time I had to lay and fix the main deck (and subsequent planking) so all the timber came to the outer edge of the hull. Although have cut it a bit oversize for future trimming. This will add 1/8” to the hull depth. I need that 1/8th so I have something to fix the decorative rubbing strake to. Part on the hull and half flush to the deck, with the spurnwater mounted on the planking but touching the top of the rubbing strake.
But more of that later. Fastening the deck down. Slow-set Araldite and lots of clamps, heavy books etc. Fingers crossed and see the results tomorrow.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #181 on: November 03, 2012, 07:41:43 PM »

After years of shilly-shallying at various scales, I’ve eventually decided to see if I can make a joggled deck. I’m still a bit unsure of the way to do it.
But before that happens the inside of the bulwarks needed cladding. 20 thou plasticard did that, stuck down very nicely with D.S tape. The margin planks were a bit of a problem…lots of eye-balling and sanding and so on.
All the deck planking will be of Obeche. The margin planks are 0.5” wide and all the others are 3/8” wide. This equates to 6” for the margin planks and 4.5” for all the others. Unless I decide otherwise as things move on. The margin planks had to be cut “on the bias” of the grain…a bit of a waste of wood, but the results are better. All stuck down with normal UHU or Bostik contact adhesive.
But then I realised that I’d have to do the surrounds for the 2 hatches before I could lay any planks. The “caulking is 20 thou black plasticard cut into 1/16” strips. Looks a bit of a mess at the moment, but will all clean up later on. I’m quite enjoying this part of the build. Slow, but “different” ….and something new to me. I hope it all works!
 
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #182 on: November 06, 2012, 05:08:14 PM »

A couple of days of casual labour and that’s the foredeck basically done. At least as far as planking is concerned.
Pics 1 and 3 are before sanding off the rough edges, 2 and 4 are sanded, but not completed. I won’t touch this area again until the first 2 coats of matte lacquer are applied and hardened off. This will allow a better finish to be obtained. But if my experience with the planking of “Bluebird of Chelsea” is anything to go by, it’ll take at least another half dozen light coats of lacquer (each sanded down) before I’m happy with it.
Another reason for posting these “before and after” photos is to show the effectiveness of plasticard as a caulking medium. At this scale (1:12) I find that 20 thou plasticard is about right, but thinner stuff is available for other scales until you get to something like 1:48 scale when a single layer of plastic insulation tape is pretty good.
Now for the rest of the decking.
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DickyD

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #183 on: November 06, 2012, 05:24:06 PM »

Cant these bl**dy question marks be sorted out


Lovely job Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #184 on: November 06, 2012, 05:31:27 PM »

Not just question marks Dicky. Just about all punctuation marks seem to become little empty squares.
In fact....to my mind,at least....this entire new "upgrade / modernisation" etc sucks.  Harder to read for one thing. Then everything went upside down. Why fix something that ain't broke (as the man said). BY.
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Capt Podge

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #185 on: November 06, 2012, 09:09:05 PM »

Looks like the problem with punctuation has been resolved Bryan, you're latest posting is, once again, perfectly readable - well done to whoever put it right.  :-))
 
Regards,
 
Ray.
 
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kraftykid

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #186 on: November 07, 2012, 08:00:29 AM »

Why fix something that ain't broke (as the man said). BY.
     
i agree the old mayhem was fine but maby the change is due to the issues last year , i imagine the problems won't last long its like having a new modelboat you have to ballast it and sort out anyother problems      kk
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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #187 on: November 07, 2012, 08:17:23 AM »

Nice to see you back KK, I was actually worried about you, I thought some nice girl had stolen you away. Sorry Brian I did not mean to interrupt your thread. I do agree with you Brian, sometimes change creates more problems than it solves, but who are we to question the powers that be. I am sure there is a perfect explanation somewhere, it is just the job of finding it. We will love it in a few months, just about the time it changes again.  Mick B.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #188 on: November 07, 2012, 05:23:18 PM »

Mick...chip in whenever you feel the need! Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #189 on: November 09, 2012, 04:50:23 PM »

The after part of the forward part (if you get my meaning) was, if anything trickier than the area bounded by the bulwarks. Not just because of the big hole in the middle where the casing will (should) slot into, but getting the wooden deck edges flush with the hull. I mentioned earlier that I’ve taken (for me) the unusual step of fitting the deck on top of the hull rather than inset it into the hull. This is all to do with the rubbing strake and spurnwater. But more on those when I get there.
The first pic is “work in rogress”. 2nd and 3rd are “work done”….at least until I’ve got a couple of lacquer layers on it. The 3rd only serves to show that modelling doesn’t need “modelling” tools. Heavy, noisy and dirty machine,yes…but used with a light touch good results can be had with little effort.
I’m more than a little pleased with the way the main casing just slips into its designated “hole”. But not yet completed. In the pic (No.4) the whole unit is resting on the 30thou thick plasticard plating. I intend to surround the entire structure with an “L” shaped plasticard strip. Not an angle bar sort of thing….the one with one leg longer than the other.Should work OK.
The next stage is one I’m not really looking forward to. Fitting the cabin and its surrounding deck. Interesting times.
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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #190 on: November 09, 2012, 10:53:02 PM »

It really is starting to take shape now Brian, it is nice to see. We can all learn from watching your work & your approach to problems & the way you solve them, thank you so much for sharing, Mick B.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #191 on: November 10, 2012, 02:19:52 PM »

Mick.
Thanks for that. Now I know that at least 3 people are reading this guff!Actually, writing it all down as I go along rather than after the event is a bit of a bonus. Writing after things are done makes it very easy to skip over problems (solved or not solved) and the various blunders that invariably occur. Came across a beauty today: a blunder, that is. For the first time in ages the sun happened to just at an angle through my window that showed up some (read “more than some”) rather nasty blemishes in the hull paint. So I’m afraid that the hull will need some fine rubbing down and re-spraying. Which in turn means masking off the planked deck. Especially round the edges. Rats. I’m not looking forward to this one little bit. But nobody else is going to do it ….so it’s up to me to get on with it. Eventually! Cheers. Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #192 on: November 14, 2012, 05:50:02 PM »

Aargh!…more expense.
Most of it necessary….but what stuck in my gullet was the fact that I had to buy a metre of the “L” shaped plasticard, much more than I needed. One length was 4” short of surrounding the engine casing. OK, it’s only about £1.50 wasted, but these things add up. All in all I’ve spent a further £34 on “sundries” such as plasticard strip sections (will be used to fabricate the rubbing band), spray lacquer and some brass tubing that will eventually become the ensign staff and its support structure.
So I’m going to call it £650 so far. So the “Good News” is that the whole thing has “only” cost me £80 per month since I started back in March. Call it £20 a week which is around £3 a day. Less than 10 ciggies.
     Ever had the experience of following a plan for months, only to find that something irreversible emerges? Well, I’ve just joined that club. The Barge is steered via a double chain linkage from the helmsman to the tiller arm. The chains run along the top edge of the rubbing strake passing over 2 small wheels before the chain disappears under the stern grating. All well and good. But the plans show the grating(s) flush to the deck, so there’s no way the chain get to the tiller. I really don’t know how to solve this problem. I suppose I could raise the grating level…but all for the sake of making less than half an inch of small chain look like it knows what it’s doing? Maybe not. But it bothers me.

       But now I’m getting a little fed-up with “structure”. Still plenty to do of course, But perhaps it’s time to break the “Heavy Brigade” out of long hibernation and see if I can remember how to use the lathe. Just a thought at the moment, but at least I’m thinking about it for the first time since I started this project.
The attached photo is a paper mock-up of the compass and helmsmans position. Not much room for a chubby coxwain.
But that layout gives pause for thought. Forget the compass. The wheel will be of brass. But what do I make the steering pedestal from? Brass or aluminium. Brass sheaves, obviously, I’m tending towards aluminium (to be painted white). But no matter what material I select, I feel that it’s going to be a bit of a head scratcher to make. Any ideas are welcome!
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #193 on: November 14, 2012, 09:38:34 PM »


As you have a lathe, could you not use hard wood.  It will turn easily and working on the top part will be easier.

Just a thought.

Ken
 
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #194 on: November 14, 2012, 10:15:54 PM »

Kenny....No, to wood of any sort.
It has to be of metal so I can get the thin edges....and the strength to hold the sheaves. I think I'll go for aluminiumif I can find an offcut from somewhere. In no way do I want to have to buy an Industrial length for the sake of making something only a few inches tall.
But thananks for your concern and idea. Bryan.
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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #195 on: November 14, 2012, 10:19:50 PM »


Of course, I didn't realise they were sheaves enclosed within.  You are right. Wood is not strong enough here.

What diameter will you need before you start turning it. ?  We can all look in our junk boxes .   ok2

Ken

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #196 on: November 15, 2012, 09:02:45 AM »

Bryam I am sure I have seen plans and/or photos showing the grating flush with the deck each side and raised in the centre 1/3rd. I am away for a couple of days but will pull out the literature I have when I get back Sunday and see if I can find anything. Cheers, Ian.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #197 on: November 16, 2012, 02:02:20 PM »

First of all…..thanks to Kenny and Kiwi for their answers.
Kenny first. Although I originally dismissed the notion of using wood for the steering gear pedestal I got to thinking more about this structure. It’s the drawings that are confusing. It isn’t a job for the lathe at all. I looked at the diameter of the sheaves and sketched them out as if looking from for’d (or aft). To allow the chains to be concealed between the upper and lower sheaves the unit must be slab sided and not round. (in section). So it looks as if I may be able to fabricate the thing from various thicknesses of plasticard. The sheaves will still be of brass….as will a couple of other bits. So, Kenny. Although we were both mistaken with our original ideas, you did give me pause for more thought. For that I thank you.
Kiwi.
I still don’t know where to go re. these chains. They really do have to run along the top of the rubbing strake and pass through cutouts in the deck spurnwater strip. Which puts the “run” into/under the gratings at deck level. I’m too far along with it now to start chopping the gratings up into “thirds”. I think I’m going to have to simply fudge it and hope it isn’t too noticeable. But as I said, it bothers me, and I just know that whenever I look at the completed model I’m going to notice it..even if others don’t. But having a presently unsolved problem doesn’t prevent me doing other things while thinking about it. So I’ve busied myself making the 2 hatches that sit on the foredeck
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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #198 on: November 17, 2012, 10:51:16 PM »

 Hi Bryan,
Now… You could use wood or you could use a metal or … you could go 3d print …  you did confess to being a dab hand at cad albeit on an early cad programme….
Maybe 3d print it in ABS … I know a man that can help  :-))
Regards,
Kim
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Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #199 on: November 17, 2012, 11:36:17 PM »

I have some thin ali if you want it pm me your address and Ill send you some up,easy to cut with a gilbo around 1/16th thick
 
 
Dave
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