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Author Topic: Decommissioning and RN ship's name  (Read 2374 times)

justboatonic

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Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« on: March 31, 2012, 09:48:01 PM »

A question for the old salts here regarding decommissioning.

When an RN ship is decommissioned, what do they become known as? So, for example, HMS Liverpool has just been decommissioned, surely she can no longer be referred to as 'HMS' Liverpool? So does she become known as just Liverpool, ex HMS Liverpool or something else?

In a way, this also begs another question about names in commission. RN ships carry their name towards the stern. So again using Liverpool as an example, when in commission her actual name was just Liverpool wasnt it? The HMS bit isnt officially part of the ship's name is it? If it was, wouldnt all RN ship carry the name 'HMS' whatever towards the stern?

Just curious!
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Bryan Young

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2012, 10:12:02 PM »

What a nice, interesting and thoughtful question.
But let us start at the beginning of a ships life.
A lot of pre-conceptions are due solely to sloppy "journalese". When a warship is launched she isn't called "HMS Whatever"....she's just called "Whatever". Then she will go out on trials under the Red Ensign (not the white). When she is eventually accepted into the fleet by the Admiralty only then does she become HMS "Whatever".
When, eventually, she is de-commissioned and no longer a part of the Royal Navy then she is no longer a HMS. Just the original name can surviive.
A perfect example of this is "Warrior". Just about all the press refer to her as HMS Warrior...again, sloppy journalistic phrasing. She is simply "Warrior".
Does that answer your question? Hope so. BY.
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gingyer

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2012, 10:57:01 PM »

to add to Bryans comments
in the last few years as soon as a warships backside hits the water it comes under the white ensign.
I remember when I worked in the yards in 2000-3 all ships were under the red ensign until commissioned
then they change to the white ensign for what ever reason that has now changed we see them heading out on trials
and even in the fitting out berths they fly the white ensign  {:-{ {:-{
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derekwarner

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2012, 11:13:30 PM »

We in OZ naturally adopt the same [HMAS] naming protocol during the build.....commissioning..... & decommissioning as noted by Bryan.......

On our national Australian news last night was footage of the return of HMAS Paramatta....from deployment support the Gulf area....... :-))

I remember the last refit [Vickers 4.5" twin turret] of the previous HMAS Paramatta  O0......but when she was decommissioned....the journalist's still termed her as HMAS......

Wouldn't you think after 4 years @ University they would actually learn something  >>:-( .......Derek
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Derek Warner

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justboatonic

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2012, 11:17:55 PM »

Cheers all for the answers! It was something that always intrigued me  :-))
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Xtian29

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 11:23:29 PM »

Brian said :
Quote
Then she will go out on trials under the Red Ensign (not the white).


You're sure ?  The Defender during actual sea trials.  In fact, even not commissioned and of course not already HMS, she's under command of a RN officer and able to fly the Blue Ensign



Xtian
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pugwash

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2012, 11:34:42 PM »

I remember when we did our contractors sea trials on Juno we had a 4 ring captain in charge but he was RN retired and being paid by
VT,
VT also supplied the beer and buffet and as it was my 21st birthday  I imbibed a little too much of the supplied amber nectar'
Happy days
And we were flying the Blue Ensign
Geoff
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2012, 11:35:08 PM »

My understanding is that one a navy ship has been finally decomissioned she simply becomes a hulk with her name and emblems removed. Officially she ceases to exist except as scrap.

As the former Invincible below.

Colin

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pugwash

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2012, 11:41:12 PM »

The ceremonial dame boards get removed for either resale or storage and then they usually paint out the pennant numbers and the red name letters
near the stern.
Geoff
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gingyer

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2012, 11:43:28 PM »

to add to Bryans comments
in the last few years as soon as a warships backside hits the water it comes under the white ensign.
I remember when I worked in the yards in 2000-3 all ships were under the red ensign until commissioned
then they change to the white ensign for what ever reason that has now changed we see them heading out on trials
and even in the fitting out berths they fly the white ensign  {:-{ {:-{
Sorry I am slightly wrong..... :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
They go under the Blue ensign not white as they are classed as naval Auxilliary ships when lauched
and go under full white ensign once commissioned.
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Bob K

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2012, 11:55:28 PM »

As I understand it the ship remains the property of the shipbuilder (and not Her Majesty) until the trials are satisfactorily completed and is officially accepted by the Navy by signing the acceptance papers  There then usually follows a short ceremony in which the White Ensign and Commissioning Penants are hoisted.  Although the ship may often be referred to as HMS 'Whatever' before this it technically remains a just a dockyard contract reference number.

During trials the ship has a full Navy crew, and representatives of the shipbuilders plus additional shipyard personnel to carry out any minor repairs or adjustments.  The shipbuilders remain the owners until the acceptance forms are signed.  An interesting aspect that ex Navy officers here might like to clarify is whether a senior officer can hoist a flag representing his rank on a ship not owned by the Navy.  ie:  Canberra at the Falklands.
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derekwarner

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2012, 12:05:10 AM »

The English language is complex..... >>:-(

The hulk of the former HMAS....Paramatta was towed ...is  :-))
The Paramatta was towed.......is  :-))
Yes.....pennant numbers are removed......however in OZ....the vessel retains it's name as above

Eating lunch in a pub in Port Adelaide some years back I looked out a window & saw the hulk of a DDG............. awaiting sinking as a divers reef......only in OZ could we sink the hulk of the former HMAS Perth just off Port Adelaide %%........& a few weeks ago we towed the former HMAS Adelaide [FFG] 50 km north of Sydney for the same fate........

I blame the current Federal Government........  <*< .......dingbats ....just bloody dingbats........ %% someone should by a map of Australia for them.........imbeciles............Derek

Don't you just love Martins AUTO spell corrector :embarrassed: I typed b.l.o.o.d.y....& it converts it to 'blinking'  %)
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Xtian29

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2012, 01:20:28 AM »

Bob K, I'm not sure that it's a question of RN owner for the White Ensign and the term HMS.  A new ship in sea trial is not flying the White Ensign just because she's not already in service and not because of shipyard property  

As for example the three fishery patrol ships are HMS and flying the White Ensign but are not the property of the RN nor the Queen : Her majesty's Ship ???   No it's just a question of serving the RN and not property.  

Same for the HMS Protector.  The fishery protection ships are rented and VT property, the other one is Norwegian GC Rieber Shipping property and chartered for three years.

Of course a RN decommissionning ship is just a hulk without anythings : red name paint in grey, no pennant number, no emblem on funnel, of course no flags, nor White or Red





There is some exceptions like the Warrior as she's not simply a hulk, so she's now flying the Red Ensign as any civilian ship.



About the Blue Ensign , I do not agree with the Gingyer explanation
Quote
They go under the Blue ensign not white as they are classed as naval Auxilliary ships when lauched
 The Blue Ensign is flagged only because of the RN or retired RN commanding officer in that case.

Hey hey, I like the OZ who's sank the Perth off Adelaide and the Adelaide off Sydney !    {-)

Xtian  
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2012, 01:30:07 AM »

Aha, but Derek did not say where the "Brisbane" was sunk as a reef (recreational diving exploration)
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derekwarner

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2012, 02:43:05 AM »

Well .....raaartygunner ...the dingbats  >>:-(....must have purchased a map of Australia as they managed to get the hulk of HMAS Brisbane [41] to peacefully retire & reside in the sea in her home state name of Queensland  :-))

Many years ago I spent 26 hours [without sleep] on Brisbane post refit trials........100 km off Jervis Bay in New South Wales......I preferred the sea handling qualities of the DDG's  :-)) over the FFG's..... {:-{

Thirty someting knots into a force 9 gale..standing on the bridge.......firing the GMLS13 standards over the horizon to sink a target......& the sound pressure level from the 5"/54 caliber FMC gun mounts was beyond comprehension.... <*< ...Derek





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Derek Warner

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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2012, 05:48:31 AM »

Derek,

Did you mean, sound pressure.................'was beyond compression'.  {-) {-) {-) {-)
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derekwarner

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2012, 08:26:06 AM »

No....... {-) it was just b.l.o.o.d.y LOUD   >>:-( ...about 160 dba from memory....& that was similar to the sound/frequency of lightning or a whip cracking  :-X .....Derek
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boat captain

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Re: Decommissioning and RN ship's name
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2012, 10:41:05 AM »

I worked in Cammell Laird on as a Foreman Engineer and worked and sailed on the sea trials of all the following vessels.  (HMS) Birmingham, Coventry, Liverpool, Edinburgh and Campbeltown.  As these trials took place pre 1993 we flew the Red Duster. These trials where manned by our own personnel under the command of an R.N Retired Skipper and a Mersey and Clyde Pilot.  The only time they were crewed by R.N personnel was on delivery trials and a small workforce of our workers sailed with them.

Joe
 :-)) :-)) :-))
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