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Author Topic: Micro Magic Yachts  (Read 51657 times)

triumphjon

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #175 on: June 29, 2012, 04:27:41 PM »

even in the no / little wind dan we werent that far behind chris with his hybrid boat ! jon
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offshore1987

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #176 on: June 29, 2012, 04:54:48 PM »

90% of racing these yachts are down to doing the right tac at the right time, or least seems to be, the other 10% seems to be down to the yacht its self, weight dosnt really matter, the best thing would be to change the sails to something after market

The other night sometimes up wind chris was pullin away a tiny bit ( with his nice sails ) yet down wind i was gettin all the gap back and abit more, probley mainly because the sails on mine fill out abit better down wind because they are not 100% crisp like chris's, plus the fact that his and my boat are about 100grams diffrence

really do think most of the time its about being in the right place at the right time  :-))  to which i wonder if chris dosnt do so well when clives not there because chris cant follow someone else? So he dosnt make perfect calls so much?

Dan
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slug

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #177 on: June 29, 2012, 06:55:18 PM »

take a look at http://www.freewebs.com/peterbsmicromagic/   seems interesting   slug
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tony23

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #178 on: June 29, 2012, 07:21:39 PM »

unfortunately Dan you are so wrong weight on a boat like this is the most critical thing there is, to build a competitive sailing boat the hull should be as light as possible and the weight as low as possible like around the fin box nobody in the racing scene use the all carbon version it's just too heavy for serous racing and nearly everything else inside the boat is also junked for more reliable gear. If your going to win races the boat needs speed not the right tac if your mate is faster up wind it's because his rig is tuned better than yours so is pointing higher and if your boats have 100 grams difference in them that's like ones got a brick in it the other doesn't.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #179 on: June 29, 2012, 08:21:41 PM »

Can the Carbon hull be sprayed / painted?

NB. Found this Very instructive! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwk8DTptrwY
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offshore1987

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #180 on: June 29, 2012, 09:00:49 PM »

unfortunately Dan you are so wrong weight on a boat like this is the most critical thing there is, to build a competitive sailing boat the hull should be as light as possible and the weight as low as possible like around the fin box nobody in the racing scene use the all carbon version it's just too heavy for serous racing and nearly everything else inside the boat is also junked for more reliable gear. If your going to win races the boat needs speed not the right tac if your mate is faster up wind it's because his rig is tuned better than yours so is pointing higher and if your boats have 100 grams difference in them that's like ones got a brick in it the other doesn't.

So how come a month ago the winning boat in london was a rtr magic  {-) out of 40 odd race boats, it was over weight from the proper 860gram race boats

Weight in these boats dosnt make any diffrence, sailing it propley how ever does, at are local lake, we have a few totally diffrent magics, a carbon, rtr and two totally racing machines, bang on the 860 gram limit with every mod and set of new sails going, yet from race to race nearly all the boats swop places.

the carbon and the rtr both are ment to be slower boats because of the weight, carbon from the hull and deck and the rtr with its painted hull and deck and tunes of glue, yet up against a full on racing 860 gram boat with new pro sails, we still have miffed them by beating them up wind and down wind....

Saving weight dosnt mean a winning boat at all, the only place you would want to save weight is up on the rig, not alot of point making the hull super light if you have a heavy rig

Dan

P.s yes Martin it can be painted  :-))
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triumphjon

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #181 on: June 29, 2012, 11:03:13 PM »

very well put dan , even though our boats are supposedly too heavy to be competeive ,
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bbdave

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #182 on: June 30, 2012, 07:28:32 AM »

In my opinion if you want to race seriously go for IOM or similar rather than a MM which in my mind is a fun club race boat that is in it's standard form relatively cheap and competitive with each other (My opinion)

As far as i understand weight is critical when sailing but not so much the amount but position, yes the lower down the stiffer the boat better for higher wind but shifting it back helps when running hence when dinghy sailing the helm position constantly changes with the points of sail. On a model this obviously can't shift on the move but if you have weight e.g. battery to far back you will sail the run better than a boat with all the weight central. Plus as the MM has a slightly raked bow technically the heavier boat has more waterline length therefore capable of higher speed.
I think as with all sailing that if you put a standard RTR MM in the hands of a skilled model sailer and tactician he will win against a less talented helm with all the expensive stick on bits. Making a boat light does not equal winning knowledge skill and practice does.

 If i get a carbon kit i'll paint it  :o!! as i'm not keen on the finish plus i will need to get rid of that gloss finish to help break the surface tension ok2 (shark skin technology)

Dave
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Artistmike

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #183 on: June 30, 2012, 07:37:15 AM »

I think as with all sailing that if you put a standard RTR MM in the hands of a skilled model sailer and tactician he will win against a less talented helm with all the expensive stick on bits. Making a boat light does not equal winning knowledge skill and practice does.
Dave

I agree wholeheartedly, in fact in the IOM championships there have been instances where boats at 1lb heavier than others have won and even at the size of 1metres, an extra 1lb is a fair percentage ! ... You really just can't beat time on the water for making a skipper/boat partnership a winning one .....
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offshore1987

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #184 on: June 30, 2012, 12:44:50 PM »

With you on that one

The magic is so small and fat that it has its own problems with every type of wind going, lights winds you want the weight faward to get the stern higher to reduced drag, lots of wind would have you move the weight to the stern to rise the bow, and so on

If you can keep the weight in the keel and hull and make the rig lighter you will keep the boat at a better sailing angle and not dump so much wind out of the sails, i think over in the Anything rules Ger, they use heavyer keel weights

Another thing that would make a diffrence in the real world is the bulb its self, having it pointing in anything other than perfect has alot of drag, to high on the front and in heavy gusts it just lifts the bow and dumps the wind outa the sails, to low and it just sinks the boat. This changes again with the light of the rig

If you can get your boat, from A to B in the short'st distance at an ok pace then you should win the race

Im sure Jon will agree that the best races we have done have been very small courses with a good few marks, it keeps it tight and close with lots of boats all over the place, and it makes all the boats on a par in that a lucky boat cant run 100 yards being in a better bit of wind, if you keep all the boats close they all have to use the same wind. On are lake each part can have wind going N, S, E, W lol or a full on 360 at times  %%

As a fun boat that can be played with and chucked in the car i duno if it can be beat

Dan
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Artistmike

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #185 on: July 02, 2012, 09:18:30 PM »

Well, the boat is finished and having just done a rough weighing I'm pleased to say that it's at about 885 to 890grm, though I'll get a more accurate weighing done at the club.  I'm surprised that it's not appearing to be too much over the class weight. I've not done anything special as yet, just left off servo number three three and trimmed the servo plate accordingly as well as fitting rod steering and trimming all servo horns etc.  The steering servo is the Graupner 261 at 10grm and the battery pack a 6V 5xAAA pack from Mike Weston which weighs in at 60grm.

At that I'm more than happy that I won't be at any real disadvantage at all at club level and I've not even looked for weight savings yet of which I'm sure there are some. I won't either till I've had it on the water to see how she sails first....

It's a great looking boat though and I'm really pleased how well it went together, less daunting than I was thinking it might be. Can't wait to get sailing now !  %%
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offshore1987

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #186 on: July 02, 2012, 10:21:25 PM »

Awesome news  :-))

Picks on the water then :P

Dan
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Artistmike

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #187 on: July 05, 2012, 11:06:37 AM »

Just a few photographs to show what she looks like on dry land before she's launched, just in case anything goes wrong and I never see her again.  {-)  The sheeting arrangement is temporary until I see how she performs on the water, after which I can make any necessary adjustments. I'm just sorting out the electrics after which, weather permitting, I hope to get a sail on Sunday...  :D







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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #188 on: July 05, 2012, 10:59:45 PM »


I've ordered one.....
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Artistmike

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #189 on: July 06, 2012, 07:05:31 AM »

Well done that man !  :D  Well have our own Mayhem fleet at this rate ! ...I've certainly not regretted it at all, it's a seriously nicely engineered boat and I can't wait for sailing trials, hopefully on Sunday !  :}
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triumphjon

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #190 on: July 06, 2012, 07:21:41 AM »

looking good , i see you fitted the bulb shroud , most people leave that bit off as it creates drag , ive also omited the two side shroud lines on mine , and not put any of the stickers on either ! just wish it wouldnt leak water through the hatch
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Artistmike

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #191 on: July 06, 2012, 07:45:49 AM »

looking good , i see you fitted the bulb shroud , most people leave that bit off as it creates drag ,

No I didn't fit the bulb covers, I just made sure that I sanded the lead and filled it well before I painted it, to give as smooth an outline as possible so as not to introduce drag..... Not having had her in the water yet I don't know how much of a problem the hatch will be, have you tried using Silicon Grease to help waterproof it?
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #192 on: July 06, 2012, 11:52:02 AM »


Apparently, my kit is on hold as Graupner has sent out the latest batches of kits without the keel bulb!

...... easy mistake I guess.  %%
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Artistmike

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #193 on: July 06, 2012, 12:27:38 PM »

Yes well, they do tend to fall over a lot without them !  {-)
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triumphjon

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #194 on: July 07, 2012, 07:44:30 AM »

having the black bulb i thought you had fitted the cover boot !  ive sprayed my fin ,  bulb and rudder in red , every time ive been sailing i smear silicon grease around the hatch , but it still leaks ! think the problem lis in the hatch clips not pulling the hatch down very well
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Artistmike

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #195 on: July 07, 2012, 08:52:57 AM »

every time ive been sailing i smear silicon grease around the hatch , but it still leaks ! think the problem lis in the hatch clips not pulling the hatch down very well

I'm surprised that there's enough water coming over the deck to get past the hatch cover and silicon grease, I suppose you've checked that it's not coming in anywhere else ?  ...... Maybe you need to get a B Rig for the sort of weather that's driving her under like that... I'm hoping to get mine out tomorrow so I'll let you know how it goes and whether I ship much of the stuff....  :((
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slug

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #196 on: July 07, 2012, 09:13:18 AM »

artistmike we are all on tenderhooks,please report later.i am going mm sailing this afternoon,we have between 10-15 mm sailing great fun. i had a carbon one but sold it and bought a racing one.still cant win,keep trying.my son in law has a standard mm the other week he won a race.slug
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Artistmike

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #197 on: July 07, 2012, 09:33:56 AM »

artistmike we are all on tenderhooks,please report later.i am going mm sailing this afternoon,we have between 10-15 mm sailing great fun. i had a carbon one but sold it and bought a racing one.still cant win,keep trying.my son in law has a standard mm the other week he won a race.slug

Well if the worst comes to the worst I'll just put a hatch patch on, the same type that I use on my 1Meter .  Slug, as I've said, I still believe most success in sailing is down to the experience and abilities of the skipper, rather than the boat, given that in essence there's not that much real difference between all the versions of the MM.  .... Race practice makes more winners than the latest boat gizmo ever will, so like anything that you want to be good at it's practice, practice and then more practice.   Me? I'm, just going to poodle about on the lake in mine, I've had enough of racing with the IOMs so I've become a cruiser rather than a racer now and if it's too windy or wet, I won't go out...  {-).
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triumphjon

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #198 on: July 07, 2012, 10:02:33 AM »

as a one make class it should be a fun form of racing without the political hassles of other classes ! i also have other yachts , none of which are within class race sizes as im only interested in sailing for fun ,
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Artistmike

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Re: Micro Magic Yachts
« Reply #199 on: July 07, 2012, 10:11:27 AM »

as a one make class it should be a fun form of racing without the political hassles of other classes ! i also have other yachts , none of which are within class race sizes as im only interested in sailing for fun ,

Me too  !  :D ...  In fact I have been building a One Meter out of wood, purely to sail for fun, as I know it won't be competitive. It should be fun to sail though when I get round to bothering to finish it !  :embarrassed:



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