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Author Topic: steering issues  (Read 6558 times)

SunnyBob

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steering issues
« on: April 16, 2012, 01:37:09 PM »

I have a steering issue on the boat, looking for a genius to cure it for me  {:-{ %%

i have the action electronics P94 esc, which gives proportional power on the rudder, to allow faster turns. This works well (usually) If i go go full ahead and hard right rudder, the boat will turn 360 circles continuously in about a 3 meter diameter. this is only 3 times the boats length so I'm happy with that.

BUT.... if i go full right rudder only, the boat turns with a slight backwards movement. If while on full right rudder I go full speed forwards, the boat goes backwards faster while turning.
If I go forwards first, then right rudder, it all goes as it should.
Any suggestions? <:( <:(
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deadbeat

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2012, 05:01:27 PM »

I'll throw this into the melting pot for discussion.

Is the angle of throw of the rudder the same for port and starboard, aim for around 35-40 degrees or so. It seems the blade of the rudder is acting as a brake and the wash reflecting back giving a backward movement.

Is it a single screw boat? the direction of rotation of the screw will also affect the turning performance of the boat, one way will always turn better than the other. A problem not really expereinced with twin screw ships.
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barriew

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2012, 05:29:59 PM »

Is it a single screw boat? the direction of rotation of the screw will also affect the turning performance of the boat, one way will always turn better than the other. A problem not really expereinced with twin screw ships.

The fact that he is using the P94 dual ESC and mixer answers that one O0

It could be that the two motors are not evenly matched, or that one prop shaft is binding.

Barrie
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Netleyned

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2012, 05:42:00 PM »

http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/P94.pdf

Just in case you have lost the instructions Bob

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John W E

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2012, 06:20:09 PM »

hi there Bob

It sounds as if you may have the mode switches inside the P94 set up wrongly.   This is because your model should literally turn on the spot - when you advance the throttle stick just past neutral and apply either 'full right stick' or 'full left stick'. 

The other possibility is you may have your props rotating in the wrong direction.  As you look at the model from the back - your starboard prop should turn clockwise so that it goes forward.   Your port should turn anticlockwise to go forward.

Maybe a phone call/email to Mr ACTion man might be the best option - Dave will help you I am sure.     Better to speak to the butcher rather than the block as they say  O0 O0

Good luck with that

aye
john
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Netleyned

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2012, 06:49:51 PM »

That is why I gave Bob a link to the instructions

Ned
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SunnyBob

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2012, 09:50:54 PM »

I went through the instructions a couple of times, thought I had it right, but I;ve been known to be wrong  <:( <:(

The turning circle is VASTLY improved over what it was (used to be about 20 meters for a 360). it will now turn at speed, with an impressive bow wave.
I've fitted larger rudders, new shorter shafts which make the props only 4mm from the hull (they used to be over an inch away). I took a lot of care to ensure the shafts had the same rotational friction.
They are paired props, and I cant swear to which way they are fitted, so I'll go check that in the morning when I rad the instructions again.

I noticed I had to move the transmitter trim a long way over from centre to get both motors to stop at idle.

Rudders are matched in size and position, servo is centered at dead ahead.
Strange thing is it works fine on left rudder /full ahead. it only misbehaves on right rudder.
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john s 2

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2012, 10:09:55 PM »

With regard to the motor balencing. The later p94 was programmed to eliminate this.Please see actions website for more infro. John.
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SunnyBob

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, 09:29:12 AM »

ok, I know I'm always saying it, but i dont always practice it... "when all else fails, read the instructions!"  <*< >>:-(

i fitted the the P94 about 6 months ago, but due to the work on the shafts, didnt actually set it up other than the dip switches.
I now see I have a trim pot to play with. :embarrassed:

Dont know what you would consider the "later version", mine must be 2 years old now, but this is the first time its been used.

So what mode do you think is mosr realistic for a 40 ft cabin cruiser? turning in its own length? or the inboard motor stopped?
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ACTion

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2012, 09:40:00 AM »

ok, I know I'm always saying it, but i dont always practice it... "when all else fails, read the instructions!"  <*< >>:-(

i fitted the the P94 about 6 months ago, but due to the work on the shafts, didnt actually set it up other than the dip switches.
I now see I have a trim pot to play with. :embarrassed:

Dont know what you would consider the "later version", mine must be 2 years old now, but this is the first time its been used.

So what mode do you think is mosr realistic for a 40 ft cabin cruiser? turning in its own length? or the inboard motor stopped?

Mode 4.
DM
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DickyD

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 09:43:12 AM »

Mode 4  :-))

Sorry Dave, put it down to my age. :embarrassed:
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John W E

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2012, 01:01:36 PM »

hi sunybob

can you tell us what make and model  of transmitter and receiver you are using in the model which the p94 is fitted in ?

aye john

 

 
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DickyD

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2012, 01:16:39 PM »

The original P94 had problems with the cheap 2.4 systems.

This is the reason Dave has brought out a new plug and play P94 which works well with the cheap systems.
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ACTion

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2012, 01:53:26 PM »

P94 Autoset was introduced last October. We can supply an upgrade PIC chip for any P94 (just unplug the old one and fit the new one into the socket) or we will undertake to fit one if the owner doesn't feel happy about doing it him/herself. Contact us for a price (mainly postage).
That said, I think Bob's problems are more down to slight differences between the two motors e.g. brush timing. The trimmer R1 will not do anything to solve that situation.
Dave M
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SunnyBob

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2012, 04:56:29 PM »

I'm a really busy man at the moment, over the next couple days I'll get all this sorted and come back to you.
thanks
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ACTion

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2012, 06:38:39 PM »

I'm a really busy man at the moment
You reckon? Since last Friday I've built 30 x P94s, 112 x P95s, 10 x P103s and 10 x P104s - and we're still short of certain stock units for the Coalville show! I wonder what I'd do if I had time for a hobby................... 8)
Dave M
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DickyD

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2012, 07:27:45 PM »

You reckon? Since last Friday I've built 30 x P94s, 112 x P95s, 10 x P103s and 10 x P104s - and we're still short of certain stock units for the Coalville show! I wonder what I'd do if I had time for a hobby................... 8)
Dave M
Spend some of that money you're earning. 
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ACTion

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2012, 08:12:08 PM »

The kids do that for me. Never believe that they stop costing money when they leave home. The "loans" just get bigger (by a factor of about a hundred).
DM
(Sorry for drifting off topic, Bob - you can have your thread back now)
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SunnyBob

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2012, 10:33:34 AM »

thread hijacks are a good thing  :-))
I'm on a motorcycle forum and some newbie came along last week, and on his FIRST post, and moaned about the number of thread hijacks on the site. Can you believe it? he wanted first class advice for free, and then moaned when all the regulars had fun at each others expense.
The thread is still ongoing, its passed 200 replies, only about three of which were replies to him, and they all told him where to go if he didnt like it.
 %% %% {-) :-) :-)
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2012, 10:44:43 AM »

thread hijacks are a good thing  :-))
I'm on a motorcycle forum and some newbie came along last week, and on his FIRST post, and moaned about the number of thread hijacks on the site. Can you believe it? he wanted first class advice for free, and then moaned when all the regulars had fun at each others expense.
The thread is still ongoing, its passed 200 replies, only about three of which were replies to him, and they all told him where to go if he didnt like it.
 %% %% {-) :-) :-)

SunnyBob,

That makes Mayhem downright tame and civilized, where's the Mayhem???? %) %) %) {-) {-) {-)
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SunnyBob

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2012, 02:51:18 PM »

ok, David shamed me into finding some time to do more testing. :embarrassed: O0

conclusion 1;  I dont like mode 4 on the esc. its too similar to what I had before, great big turning circles.

conclusion 2;  I do like mode 3. Mode 3 is good. I can get a 3 meter 360 under full power, and I can steer to berth pretty good on the rudders alone.

conclusion 3  There is something wrong somewhere....
with the rudder on full right, the throttle works the motors, but makes the boat go backwards, regardless of whether I'm pushing forward or back.
This does NOT happen on left rudder, that works fine.
I've checked the props, they are on reversed, I shall change them over when I've got time  ;)
The motors dont start together, there is a slight lag on the right hand motor, but only a fraction of a second. But I cant see either of them being the culprit, so help please......
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John W E

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2012, 02:56:04 PM »

hi sunybob

can you tell us what make and model  of transmitter and receiver you are using in the model which the p94 is fitted in ?

aye john

 

 
pleas tell
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john s 2

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2012, 04:12:21 PM »

Mode 4 should work well if full rudder is given your boat should turn in its own length. Less rudder gives a proportional turn like mode 3. It does seem that your set up needs looking at . Which of course your doing. Please as asked let the lads know what rc your using. John.
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triumphjon

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2012, 04:26:01 PM »

maybe a pic of the model of boat would also help us in working out the problem ?  are the props counter rotating ? have you tried running without the mixer , ? is the boat running straight on the motors ?  i run regularly two model fairey marine cruisers , one a huntsman the other as the spear , the spear is fitted with an independant esc per motor but both linked on a Y  lead to my rx , turning at full rudder on full speed i get a 360 in around  three lengths of the model , this improves dramatically at a slower speed !
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SunnyBob

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2012, 04:40:40 PM »

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu99/sunnybob_photo/0033.jpg

cant get the pic to show here, so heres the link (I hope) of all the internals of the boat.

The TX is a cheap Hi Tec 2 channel, but it worked fine before this rewire.
The boat in question is the one in the sig pic, 3ft cabin cruiser.
boat runs straight on full ahead.
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