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Author Topic: steering issues  (Read 6509 times)

Bob K

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2012, 05:56:43 PM »

A few months ago I fitted a P94 into my WW1 destroyer.  It turns beautifully in Mode 4 considering it is 900mm long but only 89mm beam.
See video clip  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cl_HNu06WY
Set up is a doddle compared with trying to equalize neutral points on separate ESC's.

I have just commissioned a second P94 on my WW1 cruiser, also in Mode 4.  The 'inside' prop progressively slows as helm increases, until near full rudder it stops, and in identical manner left or right.  It seems that at low throttle settings the effect increases proportionally, so that lower angles of rudder stop the inboard prop - which is exactly what I need for low speed maneuvering long thin ships.

This assumes you have L & R handed props, rotating outwards at the top when going ahead, and that rudder throw is equal both sides.

Mode 3, which speeds up one prop whilst slowing the other, would be more suited to tugs ferries and fishing vessels.
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John W E

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2012, 06:48:13 PM »

hi there

To be honest it sounds as if its the cheap 2 channel transmitter at fault you know; basically on cheaper sets the channel separation between 1 & 2 isnt very good on some of them.

I have had this sort of problem on a more expensive set - a futaba 6A - unless of course - his HiTec cheap set has a memory set in it (which I very much doubt) this could also cause the problem.

The cheaper sets are brilliant when they are working; a standard servo and perhaps 1 speed controller, can become a right pain in the butt when you put something in the system that can think.

aye
john
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triumphjon

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2012, 07:45:21 PM »

was the radio in the same boat before you installed the P94 ?  do the props rotate in the same direction , or oposing directions ?
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2012, 07:48:25 PM »

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu99/sunnybob_photo/0033.jpg

cant get the pic to show here, so heres the link (I hope) of all the internals of the boat.


Hi SunnyBob

Here is your picture that I've dragged into submission.      %)

regards
ken





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SunnyBob

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2012, 09:34:26 PM »

was the radio in the same boat before you installed the P94 ?  do the props rotate in the same direction , or oposing directions ?

the whole system worked normally before I fitted the P94, I had a single esc controlling both motors. the props are contra rotating, but at the moment are going the wrong way according to the experts. i will shift them soon.

If it means buying another transmitter/ receiver, then I'm just going to live with it, as I have far too much time and money in this boat already. It is not used often enough to justify more hundreds of pounds.
Apart from this one annoying foible, everything else is fine.
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John W E

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2012, 10:18:43 PM »

Hi SunnyBob
last question   if you put the rudders full over to port does the PORT motor slow down or stop and the Starboard motor speed up ?

aye
john
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triumphjon

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2012, 10:40:24 PM »

my own models operate contra rotation , when veiwed from the stern  the port shaft rotates anti clockwise , starboard running clockwise .
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ACTion

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2012, 10:14:18 AM »

It sounds to me as if you have damaged the P94 somehow in as much as one motor does not reverse when commanded to. I suggest you try testing the unit in Mode 1 (Tank Steering) and moving the sticks independently. The throttle stick will then control just one motor and the rudder stick the other. The relays should click when you move the sticks through their central position and each motor should reverse. If one does not then it's safe to assume that the unit is damaged and should be returned for repair. The cost of this would be mainly postage.
As with any questions affecting ACTion units I would be grateful if customers would contact us initially i.e. before posting questions on Internet forums (fora?). It saves time and avoids confusion.
Dave M
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SunnyBob

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2012, 11:26:10 AM »

testing as follows. all viewed from rear of boat
forward stick =right prop clockwise left prop anticlockwise.

in tank mode= left stick works left motor. right stick works right motor AND rudders, Is this ok?

in mode 4 = rudder stick alone has no affect on motors. throttle then either rudder makes the outer motor stop each time.

in mode 3= right rudder only and both motors turn anticlock. left rudder only and both motors turn clock.
right rudder then forward and right changes to clock.
left rudder then forward =right stops and reverses.
forward then right rudder=left  stops and reverses.

I'm completely dizzy now, going for a lie down  %% %%

Dave, at this stage, and even now, i dont know what if anything is at fault. as Colin says, it may well be my cheap transmitter. this kind of forum is made for this kind of question, many folk can help me resolve )ar at least diagnose) the problem even if it comes down to user error. ;D :embarrassed:
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Circlip

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2012, 11:54:15 AM »

Quote
As with any questions affecting ACTion units I would be grateful if customers would contact us initially i.e. before posting questions on Internet forums (fora?). It saves time and avoids confusion.

  C'mon Dave, it ain't arf as much fun as watching the experts muddy the water. You'll be telling us to RTFM next  :-)) {-)

  Regards  Ian.
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John W E

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2012, 11:55:09 AM »



Hi sunny bob

 

Does your transmitter have a servo reverse switch on it? If so, reverse the rudder servo over and try this full ahead and full left rudder.

 

The port or left motor should slow down/ stop or even go into reverse AND the starboard motor should speed up going full ahead

 

aye

john

 
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ACTion

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2012, 02:34:28 PM »

Bob
I am sending you a private message.
Dave M
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malcolmfrary

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2012, 10:41:47 AM »

Just a thought, are the servo reverse switches both set for "N" rather than "R"?  I've been caught out by that a few times when dealing with gear that's cleverer than me.
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SunnyBob

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2012, 04:13:48 PM »

I've been doing a lot of checking with Dave,
I had the motors wired crossways, and the props the wrong way round.  :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

Fixed all that, and there is a big improvement. the only issue now appears to be my TX, if I apply right rudder BEFORE throttle, the boat goes backwards, regardless of throttle direction. If i apply throttle first and then rudder, all works as it should.

I'll look for a better TX, but I'm just not prepared to spend too much on this. the model just doesnt get enough useage to warrant big money.

On a connected issue... the rudders only move 30 degrees from centre, is this normal? I thought they should move 45 degrees.
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john s 2

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2012, 10:46:16 PM »

Rudder movement can be adjusted by sevo link ratio. Put simply by altering the hole used by the link bar the movement (throw) can be altered. To much rudder movement can also effect steering.John.
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Bob K

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2012, 11:41:39 PM »

I had the motors wired crossways, and the props the wrong way round.

Sunnybob:  That is so easily done, especially if this is your first twin shaft set up.  I bet most (if not all) of us have been there, and learned from it.
Getting two motors to run in opposite directions the right way round, and getting the correct prop on each shaft, does take some headscratching at first.
The bath makes a great test tank  :-))

Personally I have my rudders turning 45' each side.  Seems to improve low speed handling.

Not sure what's happening with your Tx.  I have a Planet T5 which cost around 40 but drives several ships with just an extra 14 receiver for each additional boat.  
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SunnyBob

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2012, 06:38:33 AM »

ok, I'll move the rudder link closer in on the servo arm. So 45 degrees is maximum?

My Tx is a second hand hi tec I bought off ebay for 15 about 5 years ago. I dont think I had this problem before, but like I say, This model doesnt get much use. The only reson I've done all this work is that the wooden planking kept splitting apart with the summer heat here. So I've fibreglassed inside and out, and am now waiting for the august heat to see if this is still going to split.

Does anyone have a spare Tx for sale at around 20-30?
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Bob K

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2012, 07:08:43 AM »

ok, I'll move the rudder link closer in on the servo arm. So 45 degrees is maximum?

Most of your streering will be with quite small amounts of rudder.  Around 45' for low speed tighter turns.  Much above 45' and the rudder will not do much, except act as a brake.

On your Tx.  If if worked before then it should work with your new set up, provided your boat is wired up correctly.  Suggest leave it in Mode 4.  Left stick up/down is throttle.  Right stick left/right is rudder.  The P94 is an excellent unit, with detailed and clear instructions.

On Ebay right now is a Planet T5 system with current bid at 27.99
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PLANET-T5-2-4Ghz-PLUS-2-6CH-RXs-/270957824833?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3f16584b41
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SunnyBob

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2012, 05:27:35 PM »

about 15 minutes after posting that, i realised I need a longer servo arm to get more movement, not shorter.

i cant see an easy (cheap) way out of this, i think I'll just live with the problem this year. if the hull gets through the summer without cracking open, i might get back into it next winter,
Thanks for all the help.  :-))
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malcolmfrary

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2012, 10:25:45 AM »

It is simple enough to make an extension for the servo arm, often it is equally easy to move the pivot point in at the tiller arm. 
Best not to overdo it, though.  When you increase the travel by adjusting levers, there is always the chance of the system toggling over.  Amusement and embarrassment are generally equally distributed between onlookers and owner.
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SunnyBob

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Re: steering issues
« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2012, 06:23:23 PM »

got the steering sorted nicely now, had to increase the servo arm by about 10mm. rudders now go to 45 degrees, and the boat actually turns in its own length on just rudder.
 :} :} :} {-) {-) %% %% %% :-)) :-)) :-))

Unfortunately the battery died before I could do full power turning trials. so thatll be a few days now as I'm back to work tomorrow.

Its just this right rudder overide direction problem to solve.

I found an exact same Tx  (Hi-tech ranger 2) (new) for 25. But i just felt there was too much risk of having the steering fault trandsfer to the new unit.
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