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Author Topic: Bob's H.M.S. Polyphemus  (Read 208369 times)

Norseman

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #275 on: March 23, 2013, 05:19:32 pm »

Bob, I sure hope you sail this a lot ... The thought and work you have put into it deserves a gold medal. ... And maybe some sponsorship from the sealant people too.

Dave
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dreadnought72

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #276 on: March 23, 2013, 05:57:02 pm »

^+1  :-))

She's very impressive! I can't wait for those first sea trials.

Andy
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), semi submersible
« Reply #277 on: March 23, 2013, 11:16:07 pm »

Thanks for the encouragement, there have been times . . .
 
She has already spent many hours in the bath, but the lake will be the best place for frequent flier miles.

Colour scheme:  She is documented as having been grey, one of the earliest RN ships to depart from Victorian livery due to her stealth role.  Probably darker (battleship) grey in early years, then lighter grey in the Med’.  No waterline stripe as per photos afloat and in dry dock.  I believe the lower hull was a red oxide type anti fouling.  Although B&W photos cannot confirm this many contemporary paintings indicate that was common.
 
Now I have the technical challenges sorted the rest of the build should be conventional and relatively stress free.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), semi submersible
« Reply #278 on: March 30, 2013, 01:23:12 pm »

Main Decks

Using quality tracing paper enabled me to get a really good fit for the 1.5mm styrene main deck and f’o’c’sle deck. 
3mm styrene used for the reinforcing under edges alongside the watertight hatches plus square brass tube across the hull between the hatches. 
Should be quite strong, leaving virtually no space for water to collect between under-decks and removable main decks.
The two 40mm tubes serve to locate the main deck.  Small Neodymium magnet pairs will be used to clamp the decks down.

   decks


Hull Detailing

Additional hull detail is in progress.  4 sets of side access steps, the curved strakes from the ram, torpedo tube cap and ram side plates have been added. 
More to do . . .
The finely detailed bow and stern crests include intricate gold filigree surrounds.  After trying to Dremel-carve in hard wood I am opting instead to use FIMO modelling clay.  FIMO is suitable for acrylic paints, so will be modelled in sections, baked, then affixed with epoxy.  The oval crest is in four quadrants, and appears to be the Royal Coat of Arms. 

   Bow detail
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

dreadnought72

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #279 on: March 31, 2013, 12:11:27 am »

FIMO should work well for this.  It won't shrink in the oven, and you can carve (if needed!) additional detail with a dremel once it's set.

Andy
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tghsmith

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #280 on: March 31, 2013, 01:25:15 pm »

I have had to deal with the same crest work on my build of the USS Brooklyn 1/96th scale, used the computer image editor to get pics adjusted to the correct size,flipped one image so both port and starboard sides were created.. printed images were placed side by side on cardstock, taped a small thin piece of plex(lexan or whatever clear) I could the work the fimo type clay directly above them images, when complete mold material was poured over and crest were able to cast them in resin, the center section was modeled in fimo also(but I had an extra bow section from a hull that wasnt worth finishing)a mold was made from this also, a craft store fake gold leaf kit was used to finish the cast parts,, the crest look good, but still thinking about using some thickened epoxy and small syringes modified as micro cake decorating tools to make a better master.. no pics of the process but if you find my brooklyn build on RC groups scaleboats pics are there(have to get back to work on detailing out the brook)
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #281 on: March 31, 2013, 02:07:31 pm »

Interesting tghsmith.  The crest of your USS Brooklyn does look quite similar.  Nice job on the gilt work.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4036597

I intended to use the only three reasonable photographs of the Polyphemus crests, then scale and print them for use as a master to copy from.  Sections are up to an inch long, so should be copyable using FIMO.  I like the idea of using gold leaf.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

tghsmith

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #282 on: March 31, 2013, 02:21:25 pm »

the leaf covers well well without loosing details, fimo is about on the edge of usefullness on this level of detail, adding a thinning agent to it might be helpfull, I did try carving the reverse in jewelers wax, that might have worked if I had better micro carving skills..
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), semi submersible
« Reply #283 on: April 03, 2013, 02:20:13 pm »

Deck Mounting

Going reasonably well, although does not photograph well.  Sides built up alongside hatches.  Magnets fitted.  Main decks to have side strips underneath, also with magnets to secure.  Intent is for not a lot of space for water to collect in between.  (Tape is protecting funnel hole)



Colour scheme

Confirming the ships colour scheme as built, this is the half block shipbuilders model now at the N.M.M. at Greenwich, dated 1881.  Battleship grey and red copper oxide.


The hull is painted a coppery brown below the waterline with the upperworks and bulwarks painted grey, and divided by a thin white line along the waterline.” N.M.M.

When I have the decks fitted I can finish the hull detailing, then prepare and spray the hull.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

raflaunches

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #284 on: April 03, 2013, 05:41:06 pm »

Looking good Bob :-))


I have considered using magnets before on some earlier projects, but never got round to using them. This has given me the inclination to continue with my WW1 armoured cruiser project which I started almost 7 years ago! Can't wait to see her in action!
Regards


Nick B
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #285 on: April 03, 2013, 06:46:58 pm »

Nick B:  I first used magnets on my WW1 HMS Amazon access hatches, and they have proved remarkably successful in keeping the insides dry.  Tip: Slightly oversized holes needed, otherwise a disc magnet that is well fitting 'dry' will jam part way in once you add some epoxy.
 
Which Armoured Cruiser are you building?  I would love to see pictures of her.   O0
How about a Victorian / WW1 warship corner at some of this years events?
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

raflaunches

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #286 on: April 03, 2013, 08:08:20 pm »

Thanks for the tip, Bob, I'll try to remember it when I build the model.
I was building a 1/96 scale model of HMS Kent, the Monmouth class armoured cruiser from circa 1900, but  I only got as far as cutting out the bulwarks and the casements for the small bow and stern chaser guns. I stopped after studying the plans and realised that access was going to be the big problem so I put it away for when I was a better modeller (or when someone else came with the answer  :embarrassed: )
The hull is available from Deans Marine, I was going to build her during the battle of the Falkland Islands in 1914 during the SMS Nurnberg chase!
Love to see a Victorian/WW1 section in some of the events there seems to be a rising in that era recently judging by the current forum activity at the moment.
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Nick B

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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #287 on: April 03, 2013, 09:51:48 pm »

HMS Kent would make a wonderful model, especially with connections to your stay in the Falklands.  As for internal access, there is an excellent model of HMS Niobe (Diadem Class) that I have 'drooled' over at the last two Deans Open Days.  It might be worth a visit to check out how the access is achieved.
 
On my HMS Amazon I built in three large magnet-clamped rebated hatches, making the joints almost invisible by building them to line up with the deck planking joins.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

raflaunches

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #288 on: April 04, 2013, 08:33:35 pm »

I think I'll fetch the hull out again when I'm finished my HMS Coventry cruiser at work to give me something to do at night! I think I know which model you drooled over, because I think it's the same one I drooled over too!  :D
I'll have a look at my photo album to find her. I think another read of your excellent build of HMS Amazon would help too.
Look forward to your next instalment.
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Nick B

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tghsmith

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #289 on: April 04, 2013, 09:15:09 pm »

played with remaking the Brooklyn's bow ornament today, layed the photocopys of correct size under a thin sheet of lex, thinkened epoxy resin(silica thinkener) to the constantancy of thick cake frosting(no sagging or flowing) loaded this into a small syringe that I fitted with a small tip, applied  this on the plate , some working was done with flat toothpicks to make adjustments, found as the resin was setting it could be worked with clean wax carving tools(picked up a set cheap a while back) the result is now curing and will be worked a little more once hard(dremel tool or some micro carving tools) it looks much better than my other attempts.. much more 3D with open spaces that were lacking in the other.. then to make the mold and cast in resin.. several US ships of the period used the same basic castings with different objects in the oval.. will post some pics as this progresses..
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), semi submersible
« Reply #290 on: April 10, 2013, 01:26:03 pm »

Deck Mounting

Deck securing magnets epoxied in, being careful to match polarity with magnets in hull.  Slight countersinks both sides as magnet is same thickness as deck.  Main deck interlocks with f’o’c’sle deck, with two pairs of larger magnets.
Slight snag.  There should have been sufficient space for 1mm reinforcing strips under the deck edges.   It may have been a build up of epoxy thicknesses.  So, 3/32 brass angle will be used on deck edges.

Kit vs Scratch

I am coming to appreciate more the work that goes into fittings supplied with kits.  Instead of just identifying part A27 from the plan, then picking the resin or cast part from the tray, I am having to fabricate each item individually.  Interesting, but very time consuming.


Taking shape.  A lot more to do on the hull, plus finishing.


Now to start on the FIMO gold filigree work at the bow and stern.  Scaled photos under clear Lexan, plus a shaped former for the main crest.  Top set to work from, bottom set to make up on.  Another former will be required for the stern embellishments.


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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), semi submersible
« Reply #291 on: April 10, 2013, 04:18:36 pm »

Bow Crest
 
Not too bad, my first attempt at using FIMO to produce model boat details.  With more practice I am sure I could improve.  Note: I should not use a biro that still writes  ;D
 
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

derekwarner

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #292 on: April 10, 2013, 11:59:37 pm »

Bob......easy for me viewing when standing on my head from 22,000 kms away....... ;)
The domed jewel centrepiece in the original vessel crest image appears to be centered on the vertical
Your first cast/build appears to have the same reference domed face at say 30 degrees up from the vertical  :(( ........
Just visualise a 30/60/90 triangle :-)) .......Derek
 
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #293 on: April 11, 2013, 12:07:08 pm »

Derek:  Now I look at it again, ooops, you are right.  I believe I got the three sections about right, it must have been how they seated together during fitting.  Corrections in progress.  :embarrassed:
The three sided thing is about an inch long.
 
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grendel

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #294 on: April 11, 2013, 04:02:37 pm »

Looking at the photo I think it might want to ride a little higher up on the bow, it looks closer to the hawser hole and above the centre line of the structure behind it, depends how critical you want to get really, it is a grand bit of work though.
Grendel
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), semi submersible
« Reply #295 on: April 11, 2013, 07:52:15 pm »

There is a jack staff mounting frame in that 3mm above the crest, not yet fitted.  This whole area is only an inch long. 

Whilst there are many modellers on this forum whom I greatly admire, my skills in new techniques and materials are not in their league and probably never will be.

However everything I am doing on this model has been new challenges.  Whilst it would be easier not to go overboard on detail, it is in my nature to push my luck to see what I can manage to replicate, all part of the learning curve.  The tips of the filigree should end much higher too.

Please bear with me, I am enjoying myself   O0
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

tghsmith

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #296 on: April 11, 2013, 08:54:04 pm »

yes these are tough little @#$!! to get to look correct, think about hunting a craft/ hobby store for the center oval, they often have beads and findings along these lines, the right sized one set into place could look great.. you have it easy, I have to put an eagle on the one I'm working on, ps got the 6prds working out.. best luck..
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), semi submersible
« Reply #297 on: April 17, 2013, 12:12:43 pm »

  Slow Progress

4th attempt at bow crest parts, getting better, but when FIMO thickness is down to 1mm or less it tends to break up. 



Stern crest was even fiddlier as the parts were much smaller.  The ‘banner’ was made using clear ABS to make tracing easier.



Detail work on the removable deck sections continues.  The angled anchor platforms took a couple of days. 


Now I am working on the four superstructure islands.  Odd shapes, some are well offset from the centreline, and all have angled armoured bases.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #298 on: April 17, 2013, 05:52:43 pm »

I presume that the coat of arms in the centre of the bow ornamentation is the Royal coat of arms of the period.  I did a search for military badges that might have such a device that could be used.  There are few about the right size (I think) but very pricey, in the £40 -£80 range depending on the rarity.  I wonder if a RTV mold could be taken from one and cast in suitable resin.  Perhaps a plea to a dealer in these items might pay off.
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #299 on: April 17, 2013, 06:39:47 pm »

Thanks arrow5:  As close as I can make out the crest emblem is an oval version of this Naval ships crest of same era.  Note Rampant Lion is on a plain background.  The 'dome' is approx 7 x 4 mm.

Frankly, I may have more luck with the micro paint brushes  %%
At this scale embossing depth will be about paint thickness anyway.
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