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Author Topic: Bob's H.M.S. Polyphemus  (Read 211424 times)

Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #525 on: April 04, 2015, 05:11:44 pm »

Thank you Joe.  I really admire your solder work on HMS Coventry, a superbly detailed model.  I am sure you will be the first to appreciate my concerns as to the potential vulnerability of such fine detail.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #526 on: April 04, 2015, 05:36:50 pm »

Yes I certainly do Bob, I exhibit mine with the Surface Warships Association so the inevitable broken jack staff or railing is usually easily repaired, but I do love a detailed model and I like them to work so I try and balance the two.
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), Rigging Blocks
« Reply #527 on: April 08, 2015, 03:34:38 pm »

  Rigging Blocks

Inflation has badly hit both hot cross buns and very small quantities of tar, (ha’penny worth), but I am determined to try to get the detail right.  Rigging blocks, especially for the lifeboats, took some researching.  At 1/60 I was not going to get away with what I could ‘fiddle’ at 1/96.  I found some detailed period photos, got some walnut blocks and tan tread, and set about making a jig so I could make ten sets fairly consistent looking.  Rope fixed at the lower block, round all the pulleys, then tied off on the davit.



All the boats were to have tarpaulins so a frame was fitted inside each, partly to get the cover to lay correctly, and also to attach the rigging inside.  Not being on chocks (epoxy-able) the rigging and restraining straps had to be fully supporting.

  Davit uppers

Some more solderwork required.  Top ring, rope guide and tying off tee.  For mechanical security the fixed ends of the rigging tackle would be in painted brass wire.

In between the above I am painting the crew members.  Victorian 1/60 RN found on a Canadian war gaming site.  Only fitting six as being die-cast are quite heavy. 

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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #528 on: April 08, 2015, 07:15:23 pm »

Ol jolly jack there seems to be inspecting your blocks, I'm sure they will pass muster, very nice Bob.  :-))
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #529 on: April 08, 2015, 08:22:35 pm »

Much appreciated Joe. 

BTW:  A worrying thought just crossed my mind.  If the mechanical advantage of the blocks is, say 3 to 1, for every foot the boat is lowered you have to pay out 3 feet of line.  It seems to me that you'd need at least 40 ft of line around the davit cleats, which is far more than I can see on photos. 
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #530 on: April 08, 2015, 09:26:39 pm »

Don't forget Bob there would only be a couple of bends on the cleats, on a well run boat the rest would be in a neat coil on the deck.  :-))
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ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #531 on: April 08, 2015, 09:54:21 pm »

He looks like an old salt Bob! I think that too many crew figures can swamp a model, and will also add a large amount to the cost of the model.
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #532 on: April 08, 2015, 10:17:31 pm »

Uniforms of that period were not as tailored and well fitting as later styles.  I have 12 figures but at 30mm in cast metal their combined weight topside would be significant.  I only need a few as a visual scale comparison against the more usual 1/96 warships.  ie: without some crewmen this small ship might appear as large as a cruiser.

Q:  Before someone asks - 'How do you get onto the flying deck wings as the railings almost touch the turret sides?' 
A:  Open the turret door, go inside, push the turret round, then step out onto the wing.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

PICKETBOAT

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #533 on: April 09, 2015, 07:38:40 am »

Bob


Still following avidly.

I looked all over the place for 1/48th late Victorian RN figures to crew my picket boat model and eventually gave up and made my own resin figures. That kept the weight down. What I found was that although uniform was standardised at this time, contemporary photos show crews in a mix of clothing and hats, some in blue, some in white duck uniform. I think that this might have has something to do with duties. Remember too that sailors were expected to make their own uniform. Have you got and officer or two?
 

ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #534 on: April 09, 2015, 08:33:33 am »

They are good! I especially like the officer standing by the rails, very Edwardian! I did not realise that sailors had to make their uniforms that late in history!
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PICKETBOAT

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #535 on: April 09, 2015, 09:12:28 am »

Yes I was surprised to discover this too.


Peter Padfields excellent little book "Rule Britannia" states...


" men still made their own uniforms from material (from the slops account), blue serge or white duck for working gear, and the cost was deducted from their wages. It was not until 1907 that ready made uniforms were issued."


The Navy did issue set guide lines, measurements and one assumes patterns to be followed when making uniforms up.


The design of uniforms and hats changed a lot around 1920 and I like Bob wanted figures in the old style uniforms.


Bare feet on deck were very common and straw (sennet) hats were still around till about 1910 although by then probably only for fancy parades or hot weather. 


I found the research for this subject fascinating, don't ask me why. 

Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #536 on: April 09, 2015, 09:30:36 am »

Very nice Picketboat  :-))  I'd be interested in how you modelled and cast them in resin.

Uniforms of this era were very mixed, generally quite baggy, except for the officers of course.  Straw hats were often for Sunday Best.  I am setting the ship as for the Berehaven Raid in Ireland so have avoided the white ducks and white top caps in many of the Malta pictures.  Even those showed quite a mixture of clothing.  When I have finished painting them they will be epoxied in place.

Two binnacles and ships bell fitted.  Nice sailing day so shall take a break with HMS Skirmisher before soldering davit fittings.  By then the Nordefelt's had been replaced with QF guns.

Do I fit all the awning support poles and cables?   Not shown on the original plans.  May have been added later for Mediterranean duty.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #537 on: April 09, 2015, 01:58:01 pm »

Bob


Here are the trials and tribulations of moulding and casting the figures if you are interested.


http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=155299&start=120


The light weight of the resin was a must for populating such a small working model. I hope to use the same process to produce Edwardian RN Submariners for use on my next build. The other plus with resin figures is that they can be easily chopped up and re positioned  in a macabre sort of "cut and shut", thus giving me an whole host of different figures from the basic selection.


Sorry cant help much with the awning question other than saying many RN vessels were issued with awnings, even if they were only operating inside British home waters. I have pictures of Late Victorian destroyers with awnings set for a review. These. along with supporting frames seem to have been stored on deck under tarpaulin covered frames when not in use. I shall be interested to see how you tackle this.
Keep the pictures coming.   

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #538 on: April 09, 2015, 11:35:08 pm »

An interesting read Mr P. I know that Tamiya are regularly adding 1:48th scale figures to their range to complement the vehicles. Re the model railway company that sold figures, was this Falcon figures by chance? He has got a good range indeed and might be persuaded (if he knows you will buy some) to sculpt more sailors. I appreciate that this still leaves the weight issue of pewter figures!

I would like to see a range of 1:96th and 76nd scale resin crew figures available. I know you are a quarter scale fan Mr P, so this may be one for another manufacturer.
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joppyuk1

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #539 on: April 14, 2015, 03:01:57 pm »

These just reported as coming out soon. From North Star Military Figures. Slightly larger than standard wargame figures at about 30mm height.
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radiojoe

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #540 on: April 14, 2015, 04:42:31 pm »

coo they look an angry bunch, looks like they didn't get shore leave.  %% {-) {-)
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #541 on: April 14, 2015, 08:11:36 pm »

These just reported as coming out soon. From North Star Military Figures. Slightly larger than standard wargame figures at about 30mm height.

That's them. I bought two sets from Canada a while back.  Arrived quite promptly.  They do look better in Navy though.

Interesting article Picketboat - Thanks.  I am working on seven ships boats and the davits.  Hopefully some piccy's to show soon.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), Davits and Boats
« Reply #542 on: April 18, 2015, 02:58:34 pm »

HMS Polyphemus (1881), Davits and Boats

  Davits and Boats

Lots done over the week, but up to now not much to take a photograph of.  Seven ships boats completed with rigging attachments and eyebolts, two coats of matt white then picking out some detail in black.  I had considered whether to add rudders, of if they were normally stowed inside the boats. They looked odd without so I made them.

Crew finished and expoxied in place on deck. Officer on the Bridge and five ratings at various locations.

Davit uppers built from 2mm solid brass, with soldered detail which required a jig.  Rigging eye plate, rope guide and tie-off cleat part brass part plastic.  The eye plate mounting takes the rigging, inter-davit chains, plus securing straps.  Deck eyebolts for chains in brass wire.  Chain attachments for rearmost pair of boats had to be built into hull edge instead of deck edge due to deck / hull split line.  Never done detailed davits before, previous builds had die cast ones and boats fixed on chocs so this was all new ground for me.




Time to start making the tarpaulins.  Lightweight calico in the right colour, slits for the rigging, and cut oversize to fold over the boat sides.  Tricky to get looking ‘natural’, folds etc.  After some trials it seemed to go best with one piece over the top and edges, a narrow strip around to get the bottom edge straight, sealing the join, then a line of tan rigging thread along the edge.  Thinned satin varnish. 

Added the davit retaining chains next, making eyebolt attachments to the deck.  Fiddly !
Next was rigging the blocks and tackle between the boats and davits, then threading the hoist lines back through the davit eyebolts and down to the cleats. 



Seven boats in all, three installed, four to go.  Phew.  Access getting tighter and tighter.


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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #543 on: April 18, 2015, 03:35:06 pm »

Nice job on the boat covers Bob, they look natural enough to me and seven of them  %%  go and have a lay down Bob  :o
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #544 on: April 18, 2015, 04:08:21 pm »

Much appreciated Joe, especially from you.  Relaxing watching F1 Bahrain qualifying.  Sailing at the lake tomorrow, then back to the life boats  O0
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #545 on: April 18, 2015, 05:47:04 pm »

Cor Bob, you are really packing some detail into that beauty! The boats are a masterpiece in their own right, and the davits are inspiring.

Are you sailing Polyphemus tomorrow, or waiting until she is complete before launching her proper upon the world? (pre-launch testing of stability and controls accepted)

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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), More Boats
« Reply #546 on: April 21, 2015, 12:27:43 pm »

HMS Polyphemus (1881), More Boats

Thank you.  No, the trusty Springer got her hull wet Sunday.  Now that the boats and cranes are going in Poly’ can’t move far off the workbench without a protective transport case and launching frame being constructed. 
She had a full three and a half hour test sail at Dean’s just before Christmas.

  More Boats

After completing and mounting the first life boat, (and the float-off life rafts), the other four boats were almost a repeat of the first but in varied sizes.  Now I have the method for them it gets easier.  Two boats mounted inboard abaft the bridge and two hung over the stern.  Hoisting lines rigged. Rigging the davit chains and life raft securing chains is a long job as the deck eyebolts are a pain.  I reckon this ship will take over 2 m of fine chain.  Rigging blocks look a mite large, however the next size down would have been far too small. 

Waiting for some 3mm wide double sided ribbon for the crossed-over restraining straps, to limit the lifeboats swing in a seaway.






Next stage will be fitting out the f’o’c’s’le deck detail, 4 cranes plus loads more chains etc. 
Lastly will be 4 big disposal chutes, funnel top, mast with boat lifting boom, and rigging. 

For those who have had the patience to follow this long build, hang in there, we’re not far off now.



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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #547 on: April 21, 2015, 01:43:33 pm »

You take your time Bob, it's a pleasure to follow your build, I hear there's a shortage of 2mm chain, I know where it's all gone now.  %% {-) {-)
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PICKETBOAT

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #548 on: April 21, 2015, 07:12:57 pm »

Bob


Waiting for some 3mm wide double sided ribbon for the crossed-over restraining straps, to limit the lifeboats swing in a seaway.

I can let you have some (off white coloured) flat woven cotton thread 3mm by 0.75mm which looks just like the stuff on the real vessels. Like all model rigging thread, drawing it over a bees wax block before use removes any fuzzyness, keeps it in place and makes it a bit waterproof.
If you want a couple of metres send me a PM with your postal address.   

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #549 on: April 21, 2015, 07:20:57 pm »

Bob


Having problems with trying to post a message here?


"Waiting for some 3mm wide double sided ribbon for the crossed-over restraining straps, to limit the lifeboats swing in a seaway."





If you want I can let you have a couple of meters of flat section off white woven thread 3mm by 0.75mm, which looks just like the woven manilla bands they used for this job.


Send a PM if you want some, FOC.   


If you notice the different effects in your printing, you can always click on MODIFY button and remove the errors manually.  You have 30 minutes before this choice to modify is removed

I have done the first one for you.

ken




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