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Author Topic: Bob's H.M.S. Polyphemus  (Read 210895 times)

ballastanksian

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #625 on: June 01, 2015, 10:00:51 pm »

I never thought of using remote control in anything other than a model.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #626 on: June 05, 2015, 01:50:43 pm »


How's the drying out going Bob?!
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Bob K

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #627 on: June 07, 2015, 04:44:41 pm »


How's the drying out going Bob?!


Initially, not too good, but after much rinsing drying contact cleaner etc I have gradually been salvaging a bit at a time.  Finally today I even got the brushed motors resurrected.  The air pump motor runs, but not sure yet if its pneumatic side will generate pressure.  I have to rework the copper piping with better clamps and ferrules to prevent a flexible blowing out again.  Mister and sound system still to get the defibrillator on so cant say yet if the mister disk has been affected by water impurities.  Hats off to survivability of Action electronics, when you hear the relays clicking on start up it's a good sign

Progress, but still early days.  Not as much internal damage as last time. 

Still undecided whether I really need smoke and sound, although I now have the new Component Shop voltage booster to try out.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

ballastanksian

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #628 on: June 07, 2015, 05:43:54 pm »

Keep us informed Bob. I am pleased to hear that there is less damage than expected. I am sure Klunk's rapid rescue saved you lots of trouble.

TTFN Ian:O)
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Bob K

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #629 on: June 07, 2015, 06:07:08 pm »

Not just prompt rescue, but Klunk's Rapid Response Team working three M3 Allan keys simultaneously to get the 6 gasketed hatches off quickly to empty it out. 
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Klunk

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #630 on: June 07, 2015, 06:17:21 pm »

At your service young man. Now and forever. The fee is a cuppa tea
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Klunk

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #631 on: June 07, 2015, 06:19:03 pm »

P's Danny from lowestoft is blackmailing me. It appeared he took pics of me building a bbq that weekend and had the audacity to post them. Some people don't believe I build anything or even sail boats!
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Klunk

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #632 on: June 07, 2015, 06:21:25 pm »

P's bob. Any chance of you coming to black park in September with poly?
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Bob K

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #633 on: June 07, 2015, 07:37:25 pm »

That's my home port Klunk, so provided I've not had a terminal collision with the sea bed I will be sure to be at our Black Park MBC Regatta on 13th September.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #634 on: June 08, 2015, 09:36:15 am »

With all the technology that now  goes into model boats it is surprising that nobody has come up with some kind of airbag system to prevent, or at least reduce the damage caused by sinking.

Another Mike
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david48

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #635 on: June 08, 2015, 10:40:26 am »

That's a bit of coincidence ,I was thinking that . If I remember there is or was something that fits to the key ring for boat/yachts ,if thy are dropped over board the water activates a device and a float comes up ,this must be fastened to the keys.
David
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TugCowboy

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #636 on: June 08, 2015, 12:55:58 pm »

I've thought about this before using exactly one of those devices as mentioned by David.

On any model big enough to warrant having one fitted my trials showed that it had to be mounted sufficiently high up enough to have a stability impact, or if the vessel was heavy enough for it not to be a problem then there was no way the device could help keep it afloat ( although it did make a nice marker buoy)

Mounting it low enough on a small enough vessel that it COULD keep afloat I found it got triggered by the amount of wash over the decks of my smaller tugs anyway so once again it was no good.

I gave up efforts to make something work and just resigned myself to getting "feet wet" occasionally to retrieve models from the water (although I haven't had one sunk since Wicksteed 2010 I am pleased to say! ;) )
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Bob K

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #637 on: June 09, 2015, 11:53:17 am »

Back to the restoration:  To date I have managed to get everything resurrected except the variable fan on the Mister unit.  No fan.  The Mister is good, but takes up a lot of room and tends to bubble water out through the fan opening.  I can use it on another ship instead.

So, I am taking the Mister and sound system out, and relocating all the ballasting controls in one sealed compartment.  Two air tubes up the funnel, inlet and outlet, with non return valves.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #638 on: June 09, 2015, 02:04:54 pm »

Well done Bob.


I built a working scale topsail schooner years ago and was unsure about my ability to keep water out when she healed heavily. I did not want to lose her beneath the waves so installed a powerful  bilge pump with an electronic sensor (Action). These  had their own emergency power supply. I have never yet triggered it (I am pleased to say) but it certainly adds confidence. It would not stop a massive water ingress but would give more time to make for shore. Just a thought.


Please keep us posted on the repairs and re launch.

joppyuk1

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #639 on: June 11, 2015, 08:30:48 pm »

How about this for the next one? A submarine battleship. Unfortunately I can't remember where it came from.
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Bob K

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #640 on: June 11, 2015, 09:15:06 pm »

At the same scale, it could seriously endanger Klunk's back if he tried to lift if from the bottom.
If I am reading that right it is a proposed semisubmersible Monitor rather than a Submarine.

Picketboat:  I have a bilge control system in each of the six compartments.  Sets off a 100dB alarm if water gets in anywhere.  It was loud, even underwater. A single pump could not have coped with the 'popped' pressure airline as water then came in through four 5 mm bilge top vents.

The Mk II system will have very secure pneumatic joints.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #641 on: August 25, 2015, 10:51:44 am »

HMS Polyphemus (1881), Refit

A slight break whilst I concentrated on my newly acquired 1894 French cruiser and refurbishing HMS Skirmisher. I did not want to rush back into this, but give it loads of constructive thought.

Back to the Poly.  Getting serious now.  It only took one pneumatic joint failure to cause disaster.

Having come to a total impasse on my Engel 212A (aligning hull sections & sealing) I have been avidly following the 212 build log on Mayhem.  He too has continuing O ring sealing problems, and had also suffered a pneumatic pressure pipe failure, so even quality kit subs can bite back.  Poly at least is 90% scratch built.

So, progress to date. Removed Mister with 24V batteries, and closed off funnel lower air intake.  Too many holes.  Air pump moved back one compartment.  Less joints, less compartments at risk of compromise.

Epoxied longer brass stubs into tops of ballast tanks.  Heavy duty brass tees with barbed connections to allow wire-securing of flexible pipes.  Air valve (ballast tanks vent) no longer vents into Mister compartment, now vents via tube to top of funnel.  Air pump inlet also tees into this so sole air inlet is now way above waterline. If any ballast water gets past the air valve or pump its only route is up the funnel.

I spent ages trying to source suitable clamps for 5mm O/D flexible pipe, even bought some.  All useless.  So, I used plastic coated garden wire, twisted with pliers.  The tubing has a high rating, and I reckon my revised connection scheme should withstand practical pressures.

With all the electrics fully functioning again I sealed the inter-compartment cable ducts (just under deck level) with silicone sealant.  Even if one compartment fully floods it will limit overflow into the next.  (Ref: 1912 'iceberg' bulkheads.)

Whilst refitting I replaced almost all of the M3 s/s blind nutserts, this time using 2 ton epoxy.
The MIL grade neoprene hatch gaskets were inspected, and are still in good condition. Just to be on the safe side I will be taping over the flush joints and fixings.

The bilge level warning system is to be upgraded to 10mm flashing LED’s.  The ultrasonic alarm proved not loud enough inside the hull at even a moderate distance. 

A full ‘watering can’ test in the bath will be necessary, aiming for full IP65 rating.

--------------------------------

Montgomery’s First Rule of War was “Do not march on Moscow”, based on the high historical failure rate.  The First Rule of model Warship design should be “Avoid Semi Submersibles”.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #642 on: August 25, 2015, 12:12:04 pm »

Bob


Gosh what a lot of work you have done while she was in for a refit. It's interesting to read your comments re submarine seals. I'm mid way through my 1906 C class sub build, and have not tested the "O" ring seals on the home designed WTC yet. I do hope I don't have problems.


 For future reference have you ever tried cutting a small slice off a little spring (maybe 2 or 3 turns) and pushing it over the outside of the end of the silicon pipe. This expands a little when the tube is pushed over the the barbed pipe, but digs in when the tube tries to come off. I hope to use this method on the sub but none of the tubes will be under massive pressure.


Good luck with the re launch in the "Domestic Marine Testing Facility" (bath).   

Klunk

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #643 on: August 25, 2015, 12:29:53 pm »

Bob what tools do I need to bring??? And is she going to be at black park. I aim to bring my atlantis and you are going to sail her for a bit!
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #644 on: August 25, 2015, 12:33:37 pm »

HMS Polyphemus (1881), Refit
I spent ages trying to source suitable clamps for 5mm O/D flexible pipe, even bought some.  All useless.  So, I used plastic coated garden wire, twisted with pliers.  The tubing has a high rating, and I reckon my revised connection scheme should withstand practical pressures.

Is there a chance that they may cut into the Silcon tubing?
I used to use a larger diameter tube to double up the joint.
Don't forget to pressure test this time!

... Klunk on salvage standby...

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #645 on: August 25, 2015, 12:38:40 pm »

By the sounds of it Klunk you will NEED to get that underwater camera of mine with you

Dave
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Klunk

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #646 on: August 25, 2015, 12:50:51 pm »

Get behind thee satin. How's the mini womble then??
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Bob K

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #647 on: August 25, 2015, 01:20:07 pm »

Whilst appreciating that this design project is being treated as a joke by many I am determined to resolve the remaining technical issues.  yes, I am aiming to get her to the Black Park Regatta on 13th September.  I am well aware the water is 6ft deep at the edge and up to 40ft at the centre.  Tons of testing done (including pressure tests) over the build. The wire clamps are tightened enough for security, but not so as to bite into the silicone.  Incidentely, we had two subs requiring rescue there this week, a prop shaft joint failure and fouled props.  Any sub or submersible, even the best, carry higher operational risk than a simple broad beam tug.

With water sensors in all compartments and large bright flashing LED's if anything does get in it should have maximum integrity.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #648 on: August 25, 2015, 01:26:16 pm »


No one is treating it as a joke Bob, we all felt your pain when you had problems at Wicksteed.
We're fascinated by the project and the solutions you are creating.


“THE only man who makes no mistakes is the man who never does anything.”—President Roosevelt.16 Dec 2014
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Klunk

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Re: Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #649 on: August 25, 2015, 01:28:45 pm »

This is one project I have followed from the beginning and want to see resolved.  Much good advice has been given with alternatives where needed. I'm enthralled after seeing it in the flesh even more so after her spectacular sinking at Mayhem.  That was an unforseen sinking but at least you have remained positive and carried on. Looking forward to black park. I will be there about 8 bob. Join me for breakfast!
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