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Author Topic: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER  (Read 5983 times)

Neil

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A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« on: May 01, 2012, 01:36:10 PM »

Here it is........what is the penultimate real number (not an algebraic equation) to INFINITY %) %) %)

Don't ask me, I don't think that deeply, %%
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F4TCT

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 01:39:50 PM »

Well this is the big debate...

Anyone heard of Graham's Number? Not even Graham knows much about it but is in the Guiness world records for the largest proven number or something like that.

There was an interesting BBC horizon episode on infinity, certainly gave me a headache..

Dan
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F4TCT

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 01:47:17 PM »

Oh, an answer to the question i think would be infinity minus 1, which would equal infinity...
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 02:02:21 PM »


There was an interesting BBC horizon episode on infinity, certainly gave me a headache..


Yes I saw that. Quite interesting!

Infinity + 1 = Infinity
Infinity - 1  = Infinity ?!?!?
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Neil

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2012, 02:04:32 PM »

but those are algebraic equations, sorry!
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U-33

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2012, 02:20:05 PM »

Chaps...have you all been on the wacky baccy?


I worry about you lot, I really do...
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Rich

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F4TCT

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 02:29:22 PM »

Infinity - infinity = 0?  :}

Well Neil, im afraid there is no answer.

Its been mathematically proven that 2+2 doesn't actually equal 4 and so how far can we actually trust maths? I had a discussion about something of this nature with a mathematician at the weekend and its really quite fascinating. Id love to do it at degree level.

Its like pi, it never ends but to how many decimal places should we work to? Where do we draw the line.....

I found the googolplex thing interesting also - that if each atom was placed (in the know universe) on each digit, there would be loads of spare digits left over.. Infinity is much much bigger than that and consists of numbers we havn't even found a name for, mainly because there is no need.

Its a very interesting subject which mathematicians need to be careful about when dealing with.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 02:30:29 PM »

but those are algebraic equations, sorry!

...??? ... OK I don't know what that really means. {:-{
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U-33

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 02:39:42 PM »

Infinity - infinity = 0?  :}

Its been mathematically proven that 2+2 doesn't actually equal 4....

1 + 1= 2...1 + 1 = 2...2 +2 = 4. End of story.



Isn't it?
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Rich

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Artistmike

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 03:17:03 PM »

1 + 1= 2...1 + 1 = 2...2 +2 = 4. End of story.
Isn't it?

Let A = 1.99999999...

10 X A = 19.999999...

Subtract A from each side...

10A - A = 18.0

9A = 18.0

A= 2

Therefore as A = A   2 = 1.99999 ...   so perhaps not quite end of story.... {:-{
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F4TCT

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 03:31:45 PM »

 :-))

Lol, you can do nothing but look at and think about this stuff and laugh. Its mind boggling, although very interesting.

Maybe someone will get to the bottom of this one day..

Dan
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 03:41:20 PM »

As far as Pi is concerned, surely its to the nearest pencil thickness, 4H being more accurate than 2B?! or a crayon :}
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U-33

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2012, 03:43:05 PM »

3/7d...
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Rich

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Bob K

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2012, 05:02:08 PM »

Its been mathematically proven that 2+2 doesn't actually equal 4

When I was was young I learned that 2 + 2 = 4.  How naive I must have been.  Far to vague.
I then went to college and found that 2.00 + 2.00 = 4.00, a level of precision that with extra decimal places should cover every eventuality.
WRONG !
My wife is a Bookkeeper.  Shes assures me that in Accountancy 4 is the one value it can never be.  The answer is either 3 or 5, depending on whether you are calculating for the Tax Return or the Shareholders.

Anyway, this all sounds like an "Ultimate Question" for "Deep Thought", in which case the answer is of course 42  {-)
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Norseman

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2012, 07:32:12 PM »

Imagine a perfect circle Neil

You have just achieved something that neither nature nor maths can show you . I think that arguement
on perfect or 'ideal' shapes goes back to Plato. Now apply your 'ideal' to approaching infinity - so you already
imagine the answer but you can never demonstrate or verbalise it - though you can easily communicate it to
those willing to imagine. The paradox is that every responsive answer to your suggestion will be utterly unique.

If I am forced to be only logical then to give '1' a definite value I must first ask what is 1? a digit, a distance, an
infinity? I am defeated by the logic of others almost immediately.

I admit I also like Bob's  '42' answer ......... a very nice age for a model %) {-)

Dave
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malcolmfrary

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2012, 07:51:06 PM »

3/7d...
That was an expensive pi back in pre decimal days.
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Martin [Admin]

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bobdoc

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 09:01:17 PM »

To add to the confusion:

There are an infinite number of integers.
There are also an infinite number of prime numbers,  natural numbers greater than 1 that have no positive divisors other than 1 and itself
So, there are obviously fewer prime numbers that integers but both are infinite

They say mathematicians produce no new work after the age of 40 ..... I am not surprised !

Don't have sleepless nights !

Regards

Bob
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Neil

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2012, 09:03:50 PM »

well, my flabber is gasted....if I'd have known earlier that i could have got all you lot working and thinking in such unison.........I'd have posted the question before.....
so as no one came up with the answer finite.....I'll post an easier one........

how is a hailstone formed.....and no looking on Wikky either.
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DickyD

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2012, 09:31:26 PM »

Rain rising to a colder layer of air forms hail.
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dreadnought72

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2012, 10:09:12 PM »

To add to the confusion:

Ah, but some of us have heard of aleph_0 and are wise to the countably infinite%%

Andy
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CF-FZG

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2012, 10:15:14 PM »

I admit I also like Bob's  '42' answer ......... a very nice age for a model %) {-)

Not sure about the age, but if her stats begin with 42, she's got me interested ;)


Mark.
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2012, 10:17:44 PM »

Let A = 1.99999999...

10 X A = 19.999999...

Subtract A from each side...

10A - A = 18.0

9A = 18.0

A= 2

Therefore as A = A   2 = 1.99999 ...   so perhaps not quite end of story.... {:-{

Good try but it is the end of story.
That is using numbers incorrectly like the subtraction examples that leaves a residue instead of Zero result when all units are subtracted.
Hence why maths has set way to add, subtract, divide etc so 2+ 2 equals two, or is it 3 or 5????????????????
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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2012, 10:58:35 PM »

how long is a piece of string? but it must be tied to a skyhook
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Kim

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Re: A QUESTION FOR THE DEEP THINKER
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2012, 11:16:25 PM »

Neil,

This is like the questions i ask myself every day using CNC equipmnet ... they should be precise but there is a human elemnet ....

I will leave now my head hurts....
regards,
Kim
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