Topic: Victorian 2nd Class Torpedo Boat (Read 15546 times)

DavidHale · « **on:** April 12, 2007, 06:49:38 pm »

Hi all,

I wonder if someone can help me?

I'm currently building a Victorian-era 2nd class torpedo boat (TB85) based on the David Metcalf plans in 1/16th scale. It's a nice size for this type of vessel at around 4' long with a 6" beam and a decent ram bow. It's scratch built using plank-on-frame plus a bit of balsa + fibreglass, with the superstructure (what there is of it) being vac-formed from styrene - at least it will be when I get that far!

What I would like to know is if anyone has any information about how these were constructed - I'm specifically thinking of the outer skin of the hull. I've got a few references (David Browns article in Warship 2005 plus the 'Royal Navy at Malta' books) but the photographs in these don't have the resolution to determine construction methods. I've been following RickFs' TB80 build with interest, and the hull plating looks convincing to my eyes - but would it be appropriate for my ship?

I'll post up a few pictures of what I've built so far in a day or so - at the moment it's covered in tape whilst various bits dry, so not very photogenic!

TIA

David

Here's a pic of the type of vessel for those that are wondering; mine will be similar in size but the superstructure and funnel arrangement is different.

Bryan Young · « **Reply #1 on:** April 12, 2007, 08:15:01 pm »

Apart from trying the various museums etc..which I am sure you have done...have you called Steve Pickering in Dumfries?
Although what he produces may not be exactly what you want he has researched the subject and now produces a lovely Victorian torpedo boat.
I do not have his e-mail address at hand, but his phone no. is 01387 820558.
I will now try to post a pic. of his torpedo boat. (Sometimes this works, sometimes not).

Brian_C · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2007, 08:25:46 pm »

heres steves torpedo boat

Brian_C · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2007, 08:37:28 pm »

steve,s semi kit was first shown at ellsmere 2 yrs ago and is still available, and is producing another kit for this year,,,

RickF · « **Reply #4 on:** April 12, 2007, 11:03:37 pm »

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the kind words. Hopefully there will be some better pictures soon of the hull of TB80. However, I keep getting diverted, and following the reappearance of the plans website, have just sent off for the plans for TB85!

As regards plating, there are numerous examples on the net. The early boats, as you are probably aware, were based on commercial launch hulls, so anything goes, more or less. If you want to e-mail me I will send you as many images as I have. If you can get hold of a copy of David Lyon's "The First Destroyers" it also has some good photos.

Rick

Bryan Young · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2007, 11:07:15 pm »

Quote from: DickyD on April 12, 2007, 08:18:31 pm

Didn't work.

Richard

Don't know why. The pic fits the parameters. What does a white rectangle with a red X in it mean? Been wanting to know for ages but never got up the nerve to ask. Or am I just being stoopid again.

Bryan Young · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2007, 11:10:08 pm »

Quote from: brian_c on April 12, 2007, 08:25:46 pm

heres steves torpedo boat

Stole my thunder again. I shall have words with you later.....after you have told me what you have killed this week. BY

Tug · « **Reply #7 on:** April 12, 2007, 11:48:34 pm »

"What does a white rectangle with a red X in it mean?"

computer couldn't find it,

you shrunk it and didn't change the name/or did.

and so you don't feel bad.... I've done it [a lot]

DavidHale · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2007, 08:50:35 am »

Thanks for all the replies so far!

Quote from: RickF on April 12, 2007, 11:03:37 pm

As regards plating, there are numerous examples on the net. The early boats, as you are probably aware, were based on commercial launch hulls, so anything goes, more or less. If you want to e-mail me I will send you as many images as I have. If you can get hold of a copy of David Lyon's "The First Destroyers" it also has some good photos.

Rick, I had forgotten that I have a copy of that book! A very useful source of information. Your 'almost anything goes' suggestion is what I suspected, especially as I have yet to see to 2nd class boats looking even vaguely similar in the pictures and references that I have. I've posted some pictures of the model so far, and as you can see where it is primed with white paint at the moment the subtleties of the hull lines almost disappear, so I think I will plate it in order to accentuate the lines. Also, what is this plans website you mentioned?

Many thanks,

David

PS whilst I'm an experienced modelmaker, this is my first boat so any criticisms/suggestions would be welcome!

RickF · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2007, 09:37:21 am »

David,

I don't think you have anything to worry about as regards your model-making - that looks a splendid job.

The "plans website" is the latest incarnation of what I still call MAP Plans - the old Model Maker/Model Boats stuff. It is now back on line at http://www.myhobbystore.com/

Rick

tonyH · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2007, 10:55:55 am »

Hi David,

Some weeks ago there was a thread leading to a French Government site with loads of plans for all sorts from the 1880 onwards. Lots of Torpedo Boats (Torpilleurs) or Torpedo Gunboats (Avisos), many with plating details.

Main address was www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr

It will mean a bit of ploughing through but some of the detail drawings are definitely worth while.

Tony H

Engineman · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2007, 11:31:01 am »

Hi David,

Oh yes, hull plating for such scale is really essential. I am strongly recommend to find/may be contact the museum of TB Defender in New Zealand if you want to get the most accurate info. Also try the ANB (Asssociazione Navimodellisti Bolognesi) - they have a couple of plans of Thornycroft TBs of a very similar type (EUTERPE 1883 and MOSCA 1883).
What about the French archive - they have plans of the only one TB of this era (TB CORSAIR) available. I say that the "plating system" of this particular boat is pretty different to the way of plating used by J.Thornycroft.
P.S. Your boat is really looking good!

Regards,
Roman

Engineman · « **Reply #12 on:** April 13, 2007, 07:27:01 pm »

I hope this will help a bit...

Brian_C · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2007, 08:25:29 pm »

PS whilst I'm an experienced modelmaker, this is my first boat so any criticisms/suggestions would be welcome! hi dave i can see a small problem with the pointed end,,,, the headlights are to big

............ seriously its a fine model and looking forward to seeing the end result, regards brian_c

DavidHale · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2007, 09:58:57 pm »

Quote from: Engineman on April 13, 2007, 07:27:01 pm

I hope this will help a bit...

A bit?!? Blimey, where did that come from? Perfect! It looks like the same vessel the plans that I have are of as well. Thank you ever so - that's a beer or two I owe you!

John W E · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2007, 04:38:41 pm »

hi my mates

if this is your first model boat - I am going to pack in model making right now

Really good model, its a lovely model.

To plate or not to plate; obviously its up to you and its your decision. My personal thought and looking at your model; some models are of a museum class and you dont need to replicate the plating because the lines of the hull and everything are so nice and pleasing to look at . Have a look at Mayhem's main page and you will see John Haynes has just finished a model of an Americal Battleship...and I dont think he has plated that hull. However, if you see what I mean , how pleasing this model looks without the plating. Its obviously your own personal choice though.

Keep the pics coming

Engineman long time no hear, how is your steam engine build going

aye
john e
bluebird

Have you any idea what colour scheme your model is going to painted in?

DavidHale · « **Reply #16 on:** April 15, 2007, 05:49:22 pm »

Thanks for all the kind words, chaps.

I think I will be plating it for three reasons:

1. It seems to be the way they were built.
2. It will show the contours of the hull better.
3. I think it looks cool!

As for the colour scheme.... now there's another can o' worms! Pictures seem to show black, grey, buff and any combination of those three - so it really does seem to come down to personal choice... at the moment I'm tending towards red anti-fouling below the water line, black above with grey decks and superstructure + buff funnels. Or all black. Or a 'typical' Victorian scheme. Or...?

I have also been sent a very useful link by Gantu: http://wunderwaffe.wrz.hu/BKM/Rus_Min/Draw/page_01.htm
- thanks!

It's a slow build, so I'll post some more piccies when there is something else to see.

Vladimir · « **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2007, 08:12:26 pm »

My offers:
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/8520/tboat3zr3.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3218/142nk0.jpg
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7499/bkm20ig4.jpg

RickF · « **Reply #18 on:** April 16, 2007, 11:26:33 am »

David,

That picture of Roman's is something else, isn't it? He's a very helpful guy and knows a lot about torpedo boats.

On the subject of colour, have a look at page 107 of "The First Destroyers". However, these were small boats under the command of often eccentric and independent junior officers who appear to have had a lot of freedom. So, within reason - anything goes.

Rick

PS Have you read "Their Lawful Occasions" by Kipling? Fun on board a torpedo boat
http://whitewolf.newcastle.edu.au/words/authors/K/KiplingRudyard/prose/TrafficsDiscoveries/lawful_p1.html

Engineman · « **Reply #19 on:** April 16, 2007, 05:18:04 pm »

One of the proper way of painting

DavidHale · « **Reply #20 on:** April 16, 2007, 08:55:04 pm »

That's an interesting picture, Roman! I thought I had seen most Victorian-era ships, but that is a completely new one to me. Do you have any further details or information about the launching vessel? I had assumed (prior to seeing your picture) that the torpedo boats were carried amidships and swung over on the davits - aft launching had never occurred to me at all for these ships. Make an interesting companion for my boat in 1/16th scale

... I'd better start clearing the garage!

Rick, I'm glad you reminded me about the First Destroyers book, I've just dug it out of the loft - an excellent reference. There are numerous colour schemes in there including a superb study of a vessel in black/buff/black in 1897 on page 99; however I think mine will be slightly more "lived in" and weathered in it's finish, regardless of the final scheme.

On the construction side, you may be interested in how I have made the hull so far.

Firstly I started with the plans (obviously), and I scanned the section lines into my computer as a jpg image. I imported this into AutoCAD where I drew over them to create usable section lines within the CAD software. I then drew all of the frames and stringers in CAD so I had the basic framework of the hull. (I apologise if my nautical terminology is a bit awry... I normally make buildings so my naval terms are limited.) The dwg files (AutoCAD output) were then converted to use on a CNC milling machine and cut from 6mm ply. In theory this means that the frame is a 'click together' system - it almost worked perfectly!
A bit more work on the tolerances and it would be perfect.
Once the framework was glued up and dry I planked the hull with 6mm x 1.5mm ply strips, then glass-fibered the insides, rubbed down the outside, spread on a bit of filla and primered it.

The good part about this system is that I can cut a complete set of frames in about an hour if I fancy building a flotilla of these things! And, having see the TBD Velox plans in the back of the Destroyers book I may have a look at doing that one next... 53" in 1/48th... hmmmm ::)

Anyway, hope this has been of some interest and I'll post up some more pics when I've made some more stuff.

Daryl · « **Reply #21 on:** April 16, 2007, 09:55:43 pm »

I have been reading this thread with great interest, until now I have not heard of David Lyons book. I have a hull and plans for a 1916 P class patrol boat from our good friend Jorg. Is there any information or pictures in there of this class as I would be interested to see a scan of them as I understand there were many differences amoungst the class. A troll through the net yealds only a handful of pictures.

Many thanks
Daryl

DavidHale · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2007, 11:43:07 pm »

I've just had a look and no, I'm afraid it doesn't cover them.

Good looking, if slightly odd-looking ships though:

Engineman · « **Reply #23 on:** April 17, 2007, 06:59:24 am »

Quote from: DavidHale on April 16, 2007, 08:55:04 pm

That's an interesting picture, Roman! I thought I had seen most Victorian-era ships, but that is a completely new one to me. Do you have any further details or information about the launching vessel? I had assumed (prior to seeing your picture) that the torpedo boats were carried amidships and swung over on the davits - aft launching had never occurred to me at all for these ships. Make an interesting companion for my boat in 1/16th scale ... I'd better start clearing the garage!

The launching vessel is Regia Marina ironclad DUILIO (1876). Have you ever heard about Benedetto Brin - the famous Italian naval architect - he was the author of the design of this ship. BTW the Barnaby's INFLEXIBLE was built in imitation and as a 'response' to this wonder of shipbuilding. I have a very comprehensive set of plans for DUILIO battleship (including plating and armour-plating :)) So, start to clear your garage

.

Here are some pics of 'TB casing'

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #24 on:** April 17, 2007, 08:30:54 am »

The David Lyon book is readily available at a knock down price from various sources. I saw it in Portsmouth Dockyard shop a couple of months back for around £7.99. It's a must have if you are interested in these ships.

David used to work in the Department of Draughts in the National Maritime Museum and gave some of us, including Dave Sambrook, a tour of the place back in the 1970s.

Another publication of his was the four volume "Denny List" which is a catalogue of all vessels built by Denny of Dumbarton together with information and plans held by the NMM. It's a wonderful historical and modelling resource. I have the last three volumes but I don't think they come up for sale all that often and are expensive when they do. If you are interested in a particular ship you can see just what material the NMM has, including plans and photos. Whether you can afford them is something else again!

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Author Topic: Victorian 2nd Class Torpedo Boat (Read 15546 times)

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