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Author Topic: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal  (Read 12051 times)

retro boats

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2007, 02:08:36 PM »

 hi
 this type
  Unique aero engine starter by Q World racing

Similar to a Roto starter for cars this starter has a universal female adaptor built into the head. The kit comes complete with male nose cone adaptor to use on and aero engine up to 60 size!


they are abut 25
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martno1fan

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2007, 07:10:49 PM »

hi looks ok i know my mate uses a converted roto start to start his .60 aero engine using a nimmh pack so it should work. you might need to loosen the plug to start the engine though.
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omra85

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2007, 08:47:16 PM »

For a REALLY cheap starter, pop down to your local motorcycle breaker and get a starter from any old bike from 200cc up.
Stick a heavy duty switch and some heavy wire (I use thick speaker cable - very flexible and high amps) and a couple of croc clips.
Job done and about 8.  You'll need to turn up an ally pulley which is grubscrewed onto the shaft.
Mine's off a Honda 250 and has started everything including a high compression 90 off 12 volts SINCE 1986!!
Danny
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martno1fan

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2007, 09:08:14 PM »

For a REALLY cheap starter, pop down to your local motorcycle breaker and get a starter from any old bike from 200cc up.
Stick a heavy duty switch and some heavy wire (I use thick speaker cable - very flexible and high amps) and a couple of croc clips.
Job done and about 8.  You'll need to turn up an ally pulley which is grubscrewed onto the shaft.
Mine's off a Honda 250 and has started everything including a high compression 90 off 12 volts SINCE 1986!!
Danny

danny i think the point is he wants something easy to carry ,this is the reason i hate nitro because of all the equipment you need to carry about.gas is much easier on your back for starters lol.by the way did you see my decals i put on the boat?.
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retro boats

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2007, 11:16:56 AM »

hi
 the  starter was as mart says so newcomers did not have to carry a starter & battery about. does not affect me as battery is in the bottom of home made boat stand thats on wheels
 
                                          steve
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martno1fan

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2007, 09:27:37 PM »

any pics of your boat stand on wheels mate?
mart
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retro boats

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2007, 12:12:05 PM »

hi mart
 its a modified tool box from  b&q
                  steve
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martno1fan

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2007, 12:46:17 PM »

looks good steve might be a bit too small for a big gas boat though  ;)i was looking at modifying one of these for mine  ;D
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retro boats

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2007, 05:09:34 PM »

hi mart
 looks ideal for your boat, you  can rig another strimmer engine to it to save pushing it

steve
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martno1fan

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2007, 07:33:50 PM »

hi mart
 looks ideal for your boat, you  can rig another strimmer engine to it to save pushing it

steve
might just hang it on the back of the lads push bike hehe
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martno1fan

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2007, 09:46:13 AM »

has this idea died a death or is it still alive? if so heres a nice cheap kit for a new easy to build race boat yup its a woody and very cheap and all parts lazer cut. ;D
http://www.zippkits.com/ev.htm
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retro boats

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2007, 11:24:12 AM »

hi all
 nice cheap boat looks ideal for a strimmer class boat.
 but  how many people wold end up with a finished boat
i i think a lot of people dont want to do much building just bolt a few things together on the kitchen table, like a car kit
 been looking a nimrif  cigarette 33 for 45 has anyone built one ?
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martno1fan

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2007, 02:50:59 PM »

hi all
 nice cheap boat looks ideal for a strimmer class boat.
 but  how many people wold end up with a finished boat
i i think a lot of people dont want to do much building just bolt a few things together on the kitchen table, like a car kit
 been looking a nimrif  cigarette 33 for 45 has anyone built one ?
the boat is capable of running with any motor you choose wether it be a zenoah gas powered,a strimmer motor or a nitro motor.my boat will handle a zenoah even a tuned one no worries about that and it runs better than some so called professionaly built hulls ,i can say that with confidence.not much building to do really ,a cpl of days would have it finnished.it took me 1 week to build mine and i had to cut all the wood myself.its time people in the uk started to realise how easy how cheap these boats are to build and run and you will get very good performance from them as you have seen from my video of mine.35 mph is ideal for a beginers class and no heavy equipment to carry to the lake either.and a run time of 1/2 hr or more on a full tank of petrol is pretty dam good,try that with a nitro engine.these boats are been built the world over and that kit is aimed at a beginers class and they are going to be raced also.you cant buy a glass hull for anywhere near the price of that kit either.the kit could be finnished and running in a cpl of weeks if not less and at half what a nitro rtr will cost.like i said mine hasnt cost over 150 to be up and running.and with a tuned pipe will easy reach 40 mph which isnt bad at all .
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omra85

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2007, 09:33:12 PM »

hi all
Do you remember what it was like before you started model boat racing? 

If I remember correctly, not a great deal has changed EXCEPT there are now FAR more 'other things' to do! 
I started off with 'other things' - a plastic model of a dragster which, when finished looked very pretty but didn't do anything. 

So off to the model shop to see what they had.  At that point I'd never seen a copy of Model Boats or a boat race, or attended a regatte, so had no idea what I wanted.  The picture on the box of a Lesro Stiletto looked good, so with that and the help of a knowledgeable shop assistant, I left with - the kit, glue, paint, a HB20 engine, tank, rudder, tubing, aircraft silencer, thicker tubing, propshaft, coupling, plastic prop and a 2 channel radio.

I won't say it was easy to build because at that time a lot of it was more luck than judgement, but a few weeks later it was finished.
I then had to find somewhere to run it as, up until then, it had never crossed my mind that I would need somewhere.
The guy at the model shop told me of the nearest club and when they were there, from then on it was 'plain sailing'.

The reason for these 'ramblings' (apart from the fact that I'm getting old) is that the "newcomer" we are hoping to attract into model boating may not have any idea what they want or how to do it! How many IC knowledgable sales assistants are there?  I was VERY lucky - I could just as easily ended up with a model train!!

I firmly believe that the upsurge in interest in the USA is due to the fact that NOW, you don't have to rely on the model shop assistant who MAY be OK but .......
There are a number of RTR boats which seem to range from bad to quite good, but are ready to go.
What does the UK offer -
Decide what type of racing to do.  Don't know?  Well EVERYONE will say that theirs is the ONLY type, the others are not worth bothering with.  The truth is out there - somewhere!
Buy hull from XXX (have to mail order because the local shop doesn't stock it), if lucky may have an A4 sheet with a layout sketch on.
Buy engine from ZZZ (no idea which one though - huge variety of engines AND recommendations)
Buy all the other bits needed.  What do you mean "you don't know what bits" - it's common sense!
If your really lucky, join a web group who will help you, bearing in mind that you're local shop probably won't even know there is one!

WE DO NOT MAKE IT EASY.

What do other groups do?
Cars - dead easy, RTR, run in the car park, stocked in the local shop.
Planes - bit harder, RTF but have to join a club and not much competition until you're good.

So what would appeal to someone who's never done it before?  THINK BACK to before you ever had a boat.

If any established racer were to help promote a starter class, first by buying the boat, then by building and/or testing the boat, doing a photo build, recommending it, etc, it would have to fulfil certain needs:-
It would have to be able to race against others with the same boat (accepting that there would be low numbers to start with).
It would have to be associated with a type of racing already taking place into which they could move if desired.
It would hopefully look and feel (possibly smaller) like other boats they am being encouraged to move on to.

As I write this, I am more than ever convinced that if we could get a UK distributor (ie Ripmax or Jotika) to import a GOOD USA RTR boat OR get them to put the WHOLE kit together (including radio) and proper instructions, we could be onto a winner.

I know that Ripmax already sells the Nitro Hammer for just over 200 and the same American company also make a bigger (27") version with .18 cu in engine (which Ripmax don't import). These boats are suitable for 'offshore' (probably the 'lake' variety of event) or for circuit racing. They also import the Miss Vegas hydro which would only be OK fro circuit racing.  There are NO starter or RTR boats suitable for FSR-V (multi).

If you add the cost of UK parts, we could probably do something for a similar price, ie.
Nimrif 33" Cigarette hull = 45
Hardware kit = 60
Engine (pull start .18) = 60
Cheap tuned pipe and manifold (Just Engines) = 30
2 channel radio = 30
Bit and pieces (tank, paint, etc) = 10
TOTAL = 235

but which would be more appealing to a beginner?

Remember - its not what WE want, its what would appeal to a newcomer??

So what do you think (should I ask that or will it provoke so much thought that nobody responds except DickyD) ;D

Danny

 
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DickyD

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2007, 09:41:53 PM »

 ??? ???
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dazzle

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2007, 10:00:07 PM »

Great proposal, Main problem is lack of lakes & waters, I would love to see 3 classes .61, .40, .21 & under.
Tuned pipes a must, youngsters love a flash exhaust, Me I like the sound plus adds to the fun setting the bugg**s up.
I still use  a leather boot lace for starting, cheaper still.
regards to all dazzle
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omra85

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2007, 10:25:13 PM »

Leather boot lace?? Hands up all those who've ever started an engine with one.
Oh the fun we had at the start of a dead engine race in small pits - free whipping  ;D ;D

An then back 'ome to t' shoe box in't middle o' t' road ;D

Danny
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martno1fan

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2007, 11:43:32 PM »

lol  ;D.60 quid for a .18 you can get em on ebay from wong kong for 30 quid and they aint badd either  ;).or a nice.28 for 65 ask simon he got his for .the uk model shops dont wanna know dave proved that.far better email a chinese one and do a deal for shipping a few over .
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/rcworldwide-com_Boat-Engines_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ11QQftidZ2QQtZkm

heres a nice cheap hull from them they would do a deal for bulk orders my mate got a good quote from them when he was looking to go into the buisness of selling boats.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Delta-Force-12-Offshore-Deep-V-Mono-Gasonline-Electric_W0QQitemZ150018216125QQihZ005QQcategoryZ19166QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
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retro boats

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2007, 12:15:01 PM »

hi all
just had a look at this

http://www.aquacraftmodels.com/boats/aqub22-main.html

 i think it is the boat danny was looking at
not to bad for a rtr boat if ripmax stocked them SHAME

yes do remember bootlaces for starting  & black lines on my hands after
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omra85

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2007, 02:03:31 PM »

Yes Steve, thats the one (thanks for putting the link in).
It looks as though it would be fast enough for a beginner but might also appeal to more experienced racers who would like to race "like for like" without the usual building rigmarole (maybe even buy one as a 'standby boat'). 
Although obviously not as quick as a geared 3.5, it would also qualify to go straight into OMRA 'AA' class which could also be used to gain "real race" experience - stability over speed?
It would be useful for magazine articles as you could do a report including how it fared in a race. If there were a few taking it up, it would be easier to get it recognised by OMRA than the MPBA.
Even if the new recruits didn't want to travel to events, it would still make a good club boat.

I'd be willing to try talking Mrs 85 into getting me one (I might even talk her into having a play with it - ooh, errr, Matron) ;D

Martin - Did your mate ever start his business importing?  We would need someone reliable to get ALL the bits together and present it as a 'beginners kit'.  Could take off big time, as in the USA - or could end up as a white elephant.  Anyone you know willing to risk it given that there would probably be very little profit in it for the first year?  The Hong Kong hull is a Naviga circuit boat which looks more like a multi but might be difficult to "slot in" to UK racing styles (Daves new ones for example could only be properly raced in MPBA circuit races).

Danny
 
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DickyD

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2007, 02:18:40 PM »

Stick to the leather bootlace Danny.
You can always borrow mine ,I still have it. ;D

Richard ;)
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martno1fan

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2007, 02:57:02 PM »

so whats wrong with circuit racing?  ??? ,my mate hasnt started his buisness yet but its only on the back burner for a while .i do know a guy who can supply glass hulls like the super g and he has fitted them with the same engine as mine in fact i think he makes them and his friend sells them in his shop but dont quote me on that
,not sure how many he could supply but they run well and have a tuned pipe if needed.by the sounds of it your looking for a small nitro boat so i wish you well.
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Rob_g

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2007, 10:26:42 AM »

Personally i would prefer that the class was based around fsrv has anyone thought about speaking to Dave Marles to see what new comers gear he could offer
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omra85

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2007, 12:35:27 PM »

Hi Rob
If you read reply 4 on this thread, you'll get the answer.

Time for a few home truths (from my perspective), I think -

FSR-V (multi)
For - fair number of races, mainly Midlands and South. Some local club activity (Wales and South).
Against - uncompetitive (relative to National level) boats not welcomed. Very competitive driving standard required. High damage potential. Expensive.

FSR-H (hydro) and FSR-O (offshore)
For - appeals to ultimate speed seekers.  Popular in USA (good source of information). Easy entry to World Championships (places vacant at last W/C).
Against - not many races.  Short time on water. Limited number of racers.

OMRA
For - various skill levels welcome.  Lots of races (mianly Midland and South). Large variety of hull/engine/drive availability.
Against - no international competitions (not recognised by MPBA).

Although I spent many years multi racing, and still have friends who race, I "changed styles" to OMRA some years ago as I found the variety more interesting.  Not only the type of boat and engine, but the different venues (small lakes/large lakes/open sea).  The racing, whilst still being competitive, is more easy going (maybe because we don't have three World Champions to regularly race against).  The damage sustained is far less so the boats do not have to be built "bulletproof" from exotic materials, which keeps costs down.

"You pays your money, and you takes your choice"

Danny
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retro boats

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Re: Limited Cost Racing Class Proposal
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2007, 11:20:53 AM »

hi
 if any body is thinking of building a club 40 boat i see dave marles is selling off cheap monza hulls on ebay, they go well with a direct 45

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=007&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=170118397584&rd=1&rd=1


          steve
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