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Author Topic: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets  (Read 15189 times)

nige1958

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1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« on: June 12, 2012, 08:10:04 PM »

This is my thiord and final build at the moment.

1/128 fleetscale hull that has been modified to represent the ship as she would have been modified to carry the Bismark Class 15 inch turrets that the ships were designed for when first built.

The hull has been "stretched" by about 3 inches and the bow modified in shape as per the ship yard drawing I have found. The decks have been planked with 2mm sq lime timber with black insulating tape used for the caulking. The decks will need rubbing down so they are evn accross the beam of the deck but I am pretty pleased with the way it has turned out.

Lots of work to do on her which I alternate between my type 23 when i get bored and fancy a change.

If like me you cannot read books unless they have pictures in them. Not that I am saying I am thick I just absorb data from text and pictures far easier that just text alone.

Here are some pictures to explain what the new bow of Gneisenau will look like

 schematic of the whole ship in 1/644 scale showing the repositioned main mast and new hangar arrangements identical now to her sister Scharnhorst. It also confirms the 3 twin 15" turrents on the original barbetts that were built to take them in the first place.


Here are 3 pictures to explain what the new bow of Gneisenau will look like

First is a schematic of the whole ship in 1/644 scale showing the repositioned main mast and new hangar arrangements identical now to her sister Scharnhorst. It also confirms the 3 twin 15" turrents on the original barbetts that were built to take them in the first place.






Planking underway.

Will clean up when scraped and polished.The rear portion of the deck is planked mostly. Just the joggling of the margin plank to be done but I will leave this until the deck is fitted to the hull to save spoiling the planking when fixing the deck in. The deck needs sanding and scraping to levl off all of the planks to clean them up. I have to say it has turned out better that I thought with the caulking looking pretty subtle and scale like.



The difference in colout is solely due to the flash on the camera for one photo and not the other. The lighter picture is probably a better shot of the actual colour of the deck.

Running gear in and in need of a tidy up to finish off



The fibreglass on the bottom of the hull inside is the residue of a temporary bulkhead glassed in to space the porps and secure the some height. Plenty of room for the motors and mounts to be secured to an 8mm MDF base board.

Deck temporarily resting in the hull but gives a good idea of how the bow will be modified. The black tape shows the approximate location of the cut to be made in the hull for stretching. I have to say this is a daunting prospect cutting a perfectly good hull. Am I doing the right thing????



I know i know i should fit the margin planks first but the plans I have are so 'rubbish' !!!!

I might have to invest in some plans from loyalhannah dockyard but they are $65 plus postages





 
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Nige

john44

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2012, 08:24:41 PM »

Hi nige, very neat,what have you used for the planking? they look like matchsticks.
do you use black card for the caulking?

john

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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2012, 08:41:48 PM »

john.

I used 2mm sq lime strips from cornwall model boats. I cut the lengths to 400mm in lots of five strips and then stuck insulation tape over the 5 strips to hold them together. Then set a 40mm stop on my mitre block and cut them to length. I the stick 5 blocks of 5 together and put tape on the ends and cut them into individual planks I then split the planks apart with a fine sharp scalpel and instant planks with the caulking stuck to one edge and end. Just have to remeber to lay them the right way. Hey presto caulked planks

Works a treat.

Here is a shot of the finished planks ready to lay.

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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2012, 08:49:28 PM »

Too cold to fibreglass today so got on with planking and marking out the forward half of the deck.

Had to think of a way to bend the margin plans around the barbettes so came up with this solution. Laminate 0.6mm thick wood strip around a suitably sized plastic lid intil I got the correct 3mm thickness and then cut them up into 40mm sections to fit. Easy peasy lemon squeezy( i hope)



When they are stuck onto the deck I will carve and sand them down to the same height as the rest of the deck and that should be that.

Planking on forward deck underway



One side of the running gear tidied up and one rudder fairing done.

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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2012, 08:51:53 PM »

This post brings the build up to date.


Right then. All the really messy stuff now finished.

Both sides of the bow now re modeled and the prow is now sharp right down to the forefoot as it should be.



For the curious a shot of the plug inside the hull. I decided not to keep it neat because when the deck is on you wont see it. I did reinforce the bow by filling it with foam and resin. Thats a solid bow to 6 inches back so dont let her hit your little boat bow on when on the lake as she will cut you in half!!!! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

A few pics of the deck planking as it is today. I have left the edges until the deck is fixed into the hull and then I will joggle the planking into the margin planks.



The white plastic is the anchor runs over the deck and have only been test fitted so far. The extreme bow will be shaped when the anchor recesses have been repositioned slightly and the deck secured.

Just for the curious here is a shot of the original Fleetscale weather deck for an unmodified hull sat on the new modified lines of my hull.

For the increase in length was it worth it. My hands say not as i have no fingerprints left and my classic bikes are covered in dust but YES it WAS WORTH IT. She will be a one off in the UK.

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2012, 09:02:05 PM »

Very brave thing to do, but looking so good now.

Bob
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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 08:17:00 AM »

Thought I would show you guys what exactly is in the book. If you are building a model of one of their subjects I would say this book is an absolute must have.

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mickyrubble

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2012, 04:47:26 PM »

Hi,
 did you know that the Anton (380mm) turret was used as coastal defence battery at Hanstholm in Denmark and still exists at a museum there.Bruno and Caesar where sent to Norway.
 :-) :-) :-)
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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2012, 05:48:11 PM »

Hi

Yes I did but my reference books say Anton was destroyed in an air raid promting the rebuild plans. I also head that Norway and Denmark aske the Germans (politely) to remove their scrap from their countries but they respectfully declined. The Norweigens then turned the for into a museum.

Would love to go and see it one day.
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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2012, 07:08:13 PM »

Thought I would take a chance and load some more pictures of the build

Hopefully no one will object to the "technique" I have used here.

I decided to have a pretty robust tiller arm set up and to run 2 servos via a "y" lead for absolutely positive control.

Both ends of the 3mm bar used have ball links to provide the necessary movement to the rod in operation. I am left with a very positive rudder control with absolutely no slack.

The rudder arms are adapted 3 pin plug spikes which are tightened onto a flat filed on the rudder itself. Hopefully there will be no need to lift the hatch in the deck other than for annual maintenance.



I have used MFA COMO Drills 998 series motors running through a 2.5 - 1 gearbox which in test tank trials seem to provide plenty of poke. The centre motor is smaller this doesnt seem to cause an issue. I will run this via a separate speed controller and use it mainly as a docking motor but will have the capability to turn over as normal with the main drive motors on the wing shafts. I may install a switch to turn off the main motors.

Will give it a proper test shortly to see how it goes.

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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2012, 07:00:43 PM »

Got fed up with "joggling" the main deck planks so decided to have a go at the rear portion of the lower superstructure and the 5m rangefinder house.

I chose to use superglue to stick the planks down which wasnt too bad if they went down right first time. If they didnt then I had a bit of a problem. I has taken me all weekend to get this far and the deck hasnt come out too bad.

The 5m rangefinder house deck is not good and will be thrown away and I will start again. 

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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2012, 08:34:38 AM »

Re made the 5m rangefinder superstructure and it has come out nice.

Also started the midships gun deck and that has turned out OK so far. Will be glad to finish the planking though the repetiveness is driving me mad at the moment.



P.S dont tell SWMBO I used her brand new hair dryer to help with the curved plastic.

I like my crown jewels and would prefer to hang onto them for a little while longer !!!
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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 09:20:45 AM »

 Loads of progress since my last post. For the full build thread see:-
http://modelwarshipsuk.informe.com/forum/battleships-and-cruisers-f20/gneisenau-t2396.html

Continued with forward superstructure planking which is now complete. Next stage is to join on the deck leading to turret "Bruno".


Side cut outs for secondary twin turret. Used foam again to make the shape and then stuck 20thou plastic card to face it. Looks rather neat and is very sturdy.


Decided to have a play and put all the bits to gether to see how she is progressing. The barrels to the main turrets are temporarily held in place with blue tack. The main turrets will train and raise/lower their barrels eventually.

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Rob Wood

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2012, 09:07:04 AM »

Looking excellent! I've been working on scratch-building (except for the highly-hacked fiberglass hull) a 1:144 Bismarck for RC combat, fittings, guns and all, off and on, for the past 6 years. You're inspiring me to finish it!

Out of curiosity, are the gun houses, secondaries and AA guns from Fleetscale?

One note: By the time these modifications would have been made to Gneisenau, I'm pretty sure Anton would not have had rangefinders, as by 1941, the Kriegsmarine had removed all "Antons" from Germany's capital ships. The reason was that the German battle ship prows - regardless of the impressive-looking "Clipper Bows" they were fitted (or retrofitted) with, had horrible seakeeping characteristics, and the rangefinders on the Antons took a huge beating, regularly suffering damage from the surge, even in comparably calm seas.

Just a thought.

One other thought: The center prop on this ship is the main steering prop, as the thrust from that prop flows over both rudders - unlike the two outside props, which barely flow over either prop. The two outer props provide propulsion and assist in acceleration, while at the same time counteracting the efficiency of the center prop. That was a limitation in the 3-prop configuration of the original German battleships, but the two outer props were necessary for speed.

Because of the narrowness of the stern designs in these ships, there was not enough room to add either a 3rd rudder or a 4th prop, and top speed was limited both by this configuration and the horsepower of the only available engines. This is not a factor in the case of a model battleship, though, because you can easily install a gigantic (scale-wise) motor on the center prop, and let the outer props windmill without power, and still have to reduce the RPM of the center prop, to keep the ship from rooster-tailing. That is a huge advantage we have over the engineers and builders of WWII capital ships, and - FYI - the big German Battleships in RC warship combat are often powered only by the center prop, and turn amazingly better than those with all three props powered.

Keep up the great work, and thanks for the inspiration!


Rob
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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2012, 08:47:45 AM »

Rob.

Very interesting your post. The gneisenau was indeed a "wet" ship forward and the designers knew this hence the reason for lengthening the bow when planning this modification. I guess they hoped the extra 10mtrs would do the trick.

Yes the main armaments are from Fleetscale (quaycraft) and from what I can see they are pretty accurate. The 105mm main AA guns are mine modified from a rather basic fleetscale (Quaycraft) offering. My research has thrown up that the stern 4 mountings on Bismark were a new design with an almost enclosed shield with doors at the breach end. They are very different from the forward 4 and those fitted to Gneisenau and her sister.

Interesting about the screw layout I guess that why RN ships were either 2 or 4 screw design but then we all know of the weaknesses of the stern on German capital ships as they are well documented.


Here are some updates to the build so far.

Construction of the forward superstructure continues. All decks now planked and scraped to a good finish. To protect them for the rest of the build and for painting I have masked them off with tamiya masking tape. This can be removed once the painting has been completed although the insides of the superstructure deck edge plating will be left until last. I will have to create the strengthening ribs inside after the tape has been removed and then paint by hand.



Poor quality shot from the camera but this does show the strengthening ribs under each deck level. To fill any imperfections I am using fine white milliput


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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2012, 04:48:41 PM »

Forward superstructure block detailing continues apace although placing the flippin wires around it is sooooo time consuming. I am using 1/72 scale 3 bar stantions cut down to give individual holes to thread with 20thou brass wire. I bought some 1/128 single holes from J Haynes but the wire is too smal and flimsy to work with. this area of the superstructure will come in for some handling after completion of the build so needs to be reasonably strong.

One decision I have to make is whether or not to install the 3mm portholes. They have a rim that stands proud of the superstructure sides and although they are pre glazed I am not sure if they look right. Comments appreciated...



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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2012, 06:08:04 PM »

Thanks for your tips re portholes. I am afraid I cannot insert them from the inside because of lack of access so have gone with someones suggestion of brass tube cut into small slices and pushed into the holes. I have to say it looks rather neat.

Please find a short vid below showing stage 1 machinery trial on centre engine. I bumped into a guy at the CADMA show this year who sent me his design for a water based smoke unit. With the help of a fellow modeller we have (between us) built smoke units. They are very effective dont you think. Just have to muse on wether or not it is possible to turn the water black without harming the fogger unit or covering the model with black sludge.

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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2012, 09:41:28 AM »

Update on build.

Have stuck the forward deck down using P38 Isopon ( car body filler) and started to work around the bow area and anchor recesses. When using wood as a deck I find this method ideal because the body filler sticks well and ouzes out of any gaps instantly filling them. If you wait just long enough for the filler to start to harden it is easy just to trim back the excess. Also easy to sand and gives a good strong edge. Totally different around the achor recess here to her sister Scharnhorst. Scharnhorsts bow ws wood right to the prow. The anchor chain when running out must have played havoc with the decking though.

Decided to tidy up the workshop and lay out the fittings on her made so far. Some are mine (biscuit colour) and others are sourced from Quaycraft. Not overly impressed with the quaycraft stuff but they are a good start to the finished article. The funnel however was all wrong with a raised plate all around the funnel base which in reality is a small recess at the front. Had to sand the moulded plate off and re plate with Plasticard to get the right profile.

Its not until you start putting all the guns on you realise just how heavily armed these ships were compared to the modern stuff. I haven't added up all the barrels yet but its a lot !!!!



Some of the quaycraft boats received. The bulwrks on these are extremely fragile. I have managed to break most of them just by handling them. Will replace with thin plastic. I have some decking from my 1/200 Arizona left over so used it to "plank" the boats. I have yet to sand it back. Looks cool and I have planked boats that look right at this scale. Much better than painting.

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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2012, 06:55:28 PM »

Over the weekend I had to rip up a considerable amount of laid deck as I had made a glaring error. I had totally forgot the spurnwater that runs along the extreme deck edge. This meant re laying about 40mm of the entire deck edge to compensate. I also had to work out how to make margin planks for the curvy bits of the superstructure.

So

In stock I had a number of 0.6mm x 4mm x 1000mm lime strips and came up with the idea of laminating them to gether to form curves. The glue of choice was superglue as it set fast and hardens the wood which it soaks quite readily making the curvy wood formers very hard to break so would accept rough handling.

There is a picture sequence of how I achieved them.

First glue enough strips together to get the width you want for the finished margin plank. For gneisenau I am using 5 strips laminated together.Glue one end of the laminations and let it set.


Cover the bulkhead with black insulating tape to stop the laminations sticking to the bulkhead.





Start at one end and work the laminations around the curves glueing along the top or bottom edge and clamping as you go. The superglue soaks into all laminations as you go.

Wait for it to set and then peel away from the superstructure.



If you have any black tape stuck to the wood no problem re coat the edges with black insulation and you have a margin plank caulked on both sides.



Job Done !!!!

just a few shots of my re laid deck which still needs sanding and scraping back for a finish but going well so far.



forward turret (anton) margin plank laid on deck with deck planks joggled in.



One final thought. I have used the quaycraft port holes on the hull as I gave up using brass tube cut down as too boring and time consuming to acieve.

Do they look OK? once the hull is primed and top coated the lip around the porthole will hardly be noticeable. Comments appreciated gents.

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2012, 09:09:59 PM »

Does it look ok ?
NO it looks effing superb  :}
keep plodding on, your doing a brilliant job on a neglected subject.
Regards
Richard  :-))
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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2012, 10:22:59 PM »

Thanks Richard. It is a labour of love (hate) love (hate) in that order.



Got bored with re planking the deck so decided to cut out the barbette positions as the rear one will give access to the rudder servos. It was during this operation I had a brain wave (yes i do have a brain and sometimes it has good ideas).

The waster from cutting out the deck slipped very nicely inside the barbette giving me the idea of how to mount the turrets and to link them for turning by RC. I used the same cutter on a piece of 12mm MDF and cut out a hole and used the waster to make the turret ring that sits inside the barbette. this is the bit that the gun crew stand in and fight the guns on the real thing.

To make it slide nicely and to give a mounting something to mount to the turret I faced it with 0.5mm plastic and glued a 1mm top to it. I then stuck 1mm plastic to the turret base and used the barbette to centre the turret and with plastic weld glued the turret ring onto the waster.

As you can see from the video below it works a treat and can be turned with very little pressure. The joy of this mount is that I can now recess bearings into the outside face to run on the inside of the barbette if I need to or I just let it run. The drill used in the hole cutter gives me a bang on centre to use for securing the servo hourn to the base.

I intend to mount the servo directly underneath the turret ring and then build a small box attached to the ship that the servo will sit in. That way the turrets are easily removeable and the servo has a little box to prevent it spinning around. Hopefully running 3 servos off one channel via a servo morph from AcTion Electronics to slow the speed down I will have 3 functioning turrets turning.
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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2012, 02:04:46 PM »

Hi Nige

Nice work with the planking so far, I know what you mean about getting board with it! I calculated that I spent three solid weeks overall planking my 7ft long river gunboat and I am only building it over the weekends when I am home!
I love to see what-if or if-only ships, there are so many to choose from.
Keep up the good work :-))

Regards

Nick
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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2012, 10:04:46 PM »

Cheers Nick.

I found a cheap set of woodworking chisels for £5 on greedbay and they have been absolutely incredible in doing the planking. Just have to keep them very sharp. They get into places a knife cannot get and cut ends with absolute precision.

Have almost finished the main deck from the bow to midships and I have to say I like it. It just needs scaping and sanding to finish off. Not much to do now before I start thinking of a paint finish.

As the ship is a "what if" I am thiniing of a norweigen campagn camoflage look based on the Tirpitz.
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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2012, 09:52:17 PM »

Fantastic work, how you are doing the deck and the amazing hull stretch!!!
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nige1958

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Re: 1/128 Gneisenau build modified for 15 inch turrets
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2012, 03:25:00 PM »

Bit more work done this week.

Foredeck completed. Just needs scraping sanding and sealing before the main paintwork on the hull begins.



superstructure taped down to draw on camoflage lines.



Close up of hangar structure



close up of funnel structure



First markings on hull sides.



superstructure cranes bases underway



Rear mast underway with first platform base complete

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