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[killick]

I'm building a model of a 72' Harbour Defense Motor Launch.  Does anybody know where the wheel on the "open" bridge should be located?

 The plans by David Metcalf, published in the Jan 1984 "Model Boats", show it located to Starboard....But other plans show the wheel "Midships".

Even on the magazine cover which  features two HDML's, --- one boat shows the wheel hung to Starboard and the other has it squarely Midships. Can anyone shed some light on this for me???

....Thanks!

Paul McD.

[Daryl]

If you look at the pictures on www.navyphotos.co.uk in the coastal forces section you will find several of the helmsman standing in the middle of the bridge. John Lamberts book has some excellent drawing which also show the wheel in the middle.

Daryl

[Ghost in the shell]

with the HDML, i may be wrong BUT there were probably many outlets, they may have differed from yard to yard

[killick]

Thanks! Now does anyone have a photo/drawing of the forward section of the HDML's bridge? Showing location of door to wheelhouse, etc ? Please mail or message me if you do....! 

[Daryl]

I know this is passing the buck but if you ask the guys at www.bmpt.org.uk its the British Military powerboat Trust they will I am sure oblige. Another avenue is if you can get a copy (£40 ouch) of John Lamberts excellent book Alied Coastal forces I think you need Vol1 if not Vol2 in there is planty of photos and drawings, alas I havn't got a copy I borrowed one. Failing that drop him a linevia his web site , if you Google John Lambert Plans I am sure you will find it.

The last avenue I can think of is The Coastal Forces Veterans Association a mine of useful information as is a free ad in the 'Over To you' coloum of Navy News.

Hope this helps
Daryl

[Tester]

You could try your library service for the John Lambert book, Hampshire library service has copies of both volumes and it only costs 50p to reserve.

You do need Volume 1

HTH
Richard

[killick]

Thanks (again) for the help, guys.....I would be nice if I could go to that Library. and get the Lambert Book!
 -- But they don't have it in any of the Libraries here  in the City Of Winnipeg (Canada) . And I just can't afford to buy the book at around $90 CDN  :(  --or the 1: 48 Lambert Plans  --at approximately $100 CDN  :( :(  - - just to learn the loction of the ship's wheel (midships?), binnacle (ditto?), voice pipes, throttles and access door from the wheelhouse/chartroom......

(One of my sources says the "chartroom door" was to starboard....but on the drawing he provides it appears to be to port...!  ???

.This is all the detail I'm really looking at, plus how high  the "raised grating" for the Captain and Helmsman was, and what shape it may have been.

I've gone through all the pictures and "leads" I've been given but nothing shows these particular details.....There may be instruments/gauges too but I'm not aware of any..... I do have a photo supposedly of an MTB Type I Vosper that shows two throttles in the wheelhouse ---but the "Bridge" picture shows THREE throttles!

Since this is an HDML I don't think I should include the "torpedo-firing"  levers.... :).

You'll pardon me if I'm just a "Bit" confused....!

 

[John W E]

HI hope this is of help

aye John e

bluebird

[killick]

.....TREMENDOUS HELP.....!!!

Just what I needed! Could I impose upon you to tell me what the "numbers" mean? (I intend to try and detail the inside of the Wheelhouse as well.....)

Just call this course "HDML for Dummies" --and I'm the "dummy"....    

Paul.

[John W E]

hi there

The drawing comes from John Lambert's book  'Allied Coastal Forces'.   Before anyone says anything - I have sought the author's permission to copy one or two small drawings.  Also, the author does frequent this forum....so we better behave ourselves lads.

Right, the numbers of the bridge;

Starting at the aft- number 74 port and starboard flag lockers

Number 70 - a pistol rack

Number 67 - chart table

Number 66 - voice pipes

Number 68 - A/S recorder

Number 65 - throttles

Number 73 - Compass

Number 71 - First aid chest

Number 72 - blackout curtain

Number 69 - Rifle rack

As far as your next question is concerned about the height of the grating in the wheelhouse, it varied on certain vessels between 9 and 18 inches high.   The photograph of the internal comes from another book which belonged to my late dad.  It must date back from about 1942 or so - so I hope this is of some help.


aye
john e
bluebird

[killick]

John--that makes everything TOTALLY clear --- Thank you, Thank you!!

The "box-like" affair, starboard front, has to be ASDIC as it appears to be covered from "prying eyes". (They did the same thing in the Sonar Room in the RCN in 1964, just in case any "unauthorized persons" managed to find their way in.  Which didn't happen very often...!)

So--just as a point of interest, would anybody happen to know if the ASDIC screens in 1942 or later  were indeed "circular"? (Questions, questions.....I know....)

An INCREDIBLE help.....I hope to be able to "Return the favour" some day.....!

Very Many Thanks, Guys!!

Paul.   

[John W E]

Paul Im going to look for a photograph of an article of an 'in depth build' of a Harbour defence motor launch which I was given by a member of the old Forum.   As soon as I find it (you pm me your email address) I will send you a photocopy asap./

aye
john e
bluebird

[cdsc123]

Hi Paul

I took some interior shots of my Dad's boat, see
http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boats%20for%20sale/HDML_1301/index.htm
They are of a boat that is 64 years old, but remarkably true to her original design.

Thank you John E for the superb wartime interior photo, a very rare view.

Regards, Christian.

[sweeper]

Killick, with ref to your question on asdic "screens"

From memory the asdic set did not have a screen, the operator used a wheel control to sweep in varying directions. Under this wheel was a flat metal pointer which indicated on a graduated display the angle at which the asdic was pointing. All manual in the early versions.

The radar screen was circular with a trace being displayed in a horizontal line. Any detected objects would show up as a vertical blip on the trace, the distance to the object could be measured from this. The later displays (plan position indicators) used the (now) familiar sweeping illuminated line with the target being shown as a bright spot on the screen, the angle to the object being read from a compass rose on the outside of the screen, the distance being shown by graduated concentric circles on the screen.
Hope this helps.

[killick]

Christian---Thanks for the link to those photos of 1301... It doesn't matter whether you look at a HDML's hull in Naval Configuration, or in "Peacetime" Rig: it still seems so "sleek"  it's hard to believe it was designed for "Military Application"....And from what I've read those boats handled as well they looked.

Sweeper--Thanks, too for the description of the ASDIC and  Radars!!

"Splice the Mainbrace!" 

Paul.

 


 

[sweeper]

Splice the mainbrace?
Cor, that's going back a bit! Do they still do since the Black Day (also known as Black Friday) when they stopped the tot?
Lord Hill-Norton, the man who killed the tot (July 1970)

[cdsc123]

Hi Paul

What you read about the seagoing qualities of these boats is true; they will handle very much more than the crew can in a storm.  They roll with very little provocation, a sign of seaworthiness. In postwar trim they tend to over-correct their roll and go too far the other way, such is their propensity to try to right themselves. With all the weight of the armaments on the deck they were better balanced in this respect during the war. They are terribly difficult to hold on a straight course (they were designed to easily turn inside a turning submarine) my Dad lengthened the keel a little to improve this, but no great improvement has been noticed. The big slow turning screws make them a doddle to maneouvre and they stop on a sixpence when you really need them to. Of all the wooden service vessels built during the war they undoubtedly made the best candidates for conversion to motoryacht, there are many survivors around the world in good condition, many still using the original diesels! See   www.hmsmedusa.org.uk there is a list of survivors which is kept up to date. The photo gallery is worth a visit too, as they are in the middle of a major rebuild and have posted many good close-up photos.

Regards, Christian.

[killick]

Christian -- The "MEDUSA"  Site is definitely a great resource! (And those are two very  beautiful HDML models you've built! )

Sweeps-- I am ex-RCN myself (retired).    I don't know exactly when "the tot" was introduced, or the origins of a lot of other traditions---but they obviously went a long way back.....

I don't know about what they did in the RN --but in Canada first they took away the "tot" --THEN they took away our Blue Uniforms! The Navy --along with the Army and the Air Force was reduced to wearing GREEN uniforms ("Rifle Green", to be Specific. We've changed back to Blues since.).

Not only the "Blues" and the "Traditions" went, but the Powers that Be decided to change the RANKS to  bring them more in line with Army rank structure --!

I admit, the "Old" Uniform was a pain to put on compared to Today's Rig (in Canada anyway)....but I was very proud to wear it.....   
 
"Splice The Mainbrace!"

And GO NAVY--

Paul.