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Author Topic: EU - Cookie Monster ....  (Read 2178 times)

Kim

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EU - Cookie Monster ....
« on: July 07, 2012, 12:09:08 AM »

Hi All,

I have been aware of this but one year on none the wiser -
On 26th May 2012, all UK websites need to comply with the new EU E-Privacy Directive 2009/136/EC.

How do you establish what cookies your site uses .. without paying for the services of a computer whizz kid.
My service provider provides sparce detail on the issues  but given the potential fines .. I aint happy risking it!

Q. To Martin - I'm sure you are aware and i gusess a computer whizz kid .. Can you help?

I'm guessing i'm not the only one that could benifit from some advise .. but brave enough to ask!

Regards,
Kim
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derekwarner

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2012, 12:15:12 AM »

Yes Kim...I looked @ Clyde Model Boats last night & see you are in a quandary........ <*< ....I hope you get it sorted soon...............

I also wonder how many UK WEB sites comply with gobble de gook?   <*< %% .......Derek
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Derek Warner

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barriew

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2012, 06:39:55 AM »

Kim

How did you build your web site? Did you employ someone to design it, or build it yourself using tools available like Dreamweaver or FrontPage. If the former ask the designer, if the latter you don't use Cookies.

Barrie
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dodgy geezer

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2012, 08:11:14 AM »

As far as I can see, this is another insane decision by our rulers - similar to the idea that you must catch fish, kill them and then throw them back until you have the right number of the right type....


I don't think anyone's going to enforce it very strongly, but if you want o be compliant, I notice that a lot of sites are including text line on their front page which says something like:

If you continue to use this site you are assumed to agree with our cookie policy (see here).

That seems to do the trick....
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Kim

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2012, 06:11:50 PM »

HI all,

Thanks for the replies,
Answers to Barrie -

I built the site myself but use Payapl, Youtube, which if i'm right intruduces third part cookies?

I also use Paypal & a shopping basket which generates cookies??

To Dodgy geezer ..  this does seem to be another farce as although they seem to be pretty sure what level of fines may be applied they aren't sure themselves how to police certain issues ...

Thanks again,
Kim

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barriew

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2012, 09:44:10 AM »

Kim,

I'm no expert, but I think that both Paypal and Youtube will generate the cookies, not your site. As they are also hosted outside the EU, I'm not sure how they can be required to comply with the EU directive O0 I've not seen anything about Cookies from my use of Paypal.

I would think that a message on your site to the effect that unless visitors access the Youtube videos or make purchases using the Paypal shopping Cart, then the site does not use Cookies would cover you.

Barrie
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NFMike

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2012, 11:47:19 AM »

To Dodgy geezer ..  this does seem to be another farce as although they seem to be pretty sure what level of fines may be applied they aren't sure themselves how to police certain issues ...
I think it is not unreasonable that people are advised that websites are leaving tracking information on their computers. It's unfortunate that laws have had to be introduced to achieve it, but without the EU a lot of stuff would never get done - Microsoft would still be forcing Internet Explorer on us all for example.

On the other hand the continuing pursuit of Google over the 'collection' of personal wifi data is just a ludicrous waste of money. If people use unsecured wifi then anyone can sit outside and read their data, and how much of interest could a passing Streetview car collect in the 30 seconds or so it's in range, even if there was bad intent?

Anyway, back to topic - I'd think the Youtube and Paypal systems would advise your visitors about cookies, or do they remain on your site? I'd think Paypal would take them away as the link needs to be secure and they probably wouldn't trust you (nothing personal) to do that. A Youtube window might remain on your site, but I can't see why it would use cookies. You should certainly visit the help for these 'plug-ins' as it may well have changed with this new rule.

I don't think you need keep your site offline. The authorities have made it clear that no-one will be prosecuted any time soon and provided you are taking steps to comply (in fact you have already put up a simple warning which may be sufficient) I can't see you'd have any trouble.

Bryan Young

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2012, 06:44:11 PM »

This topic has caught my interest because of something Kim e-mailed me the other day.
Neither of us seem to know what a “Cookie” is or does…..or why it should be so prominent in this EU resolution. Privacy? What privacy?  Whose?
     I now and again (inadvertently) come across some arcane thingy that asks me if I wish to delete all “cookies”. So I say “Yes”….am I doing something wrong here?
So please, can someone explain to me, Kim and the rest of the untutored, in simple language, what a “cookie” is.  BY.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2012, 06:53:55 PM »

Why not simply look it up Bryan, here for instance:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/webwise/guides/about-cookies

Colin
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Bryan Young

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2012, 07:01:10 PM »

Why not simply look it up Bryan, here for instance:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/webwise/guides/about-cookies

Colin
Thanks Colin. Somewhat the wiser now. But if I delete all cookies is the info still held somewhere? Thanks again. Bryan.
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Notes from a simple seaman

Colin Bishop

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2012, 07:35:07 PM »

Bryan, no it won't be until you visit one of those sites agaon in which case another cookie will be transferred and the process starts again. You can of course set your PC to block all cookies but then some websites won't work properly, if you are ordering something online for example. And sites like Mayhem will stop 'remembering' you so you will need to log on fully every time you visit which is a pain. Personally, what I do is to clear out all the cookies every so often and then re login to my favourite sites. It's amazing just how many of the little b****s you pick up over quite a short period.

Colin
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NFMike

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 01:12:38 AM »

Cookies can (mostly are in fact) useful things - eg. for logins as mentioned. However, part of the recent furore about them is their use in 'tracking' you around the web and behavioural advertising.
The hardware equivalent to this is a man following you round the shops noting down where you go and what you look at and buy, then as you drive around for weeks after he rushes in front to many of the billboards and changes them to advertise the stuff you'd been looking at.
If you use Amazon you will see them 'pushing' stuff that is linked in some way to what your history on the site is. That is not too bad in my mind as it is kept (AFAIK) within Amazon.
But the tracking cookies take this out to multiple sites, so your information is effectively going much more public.

Some people think this is neat, some find it annoying, and some feel it invades their privacy. I'm more in the middle category for two reasons. One is that you get bombarded with adverts for stuff you looked for, so if you've been looking at a present for a family member your screen keeps throwing up what they may be getting and they may see this. The other is that I generally spend an hour or two looking, then either buy or decide not to - end of story. But I then get adverts for the next month for stuff I'm no longer interested in. (That's good in a way as I'm completely immune to them and they block out stuff I might be tempted by :) )

Any road - you can defeat some of this with the help of a couple of sites that opt you out. Visit, select all, opt-out. You may need to repeat to get them all registered and you should revisit every few months and after clearing your cookies (because they place cookies on your PC to tell the trackers that you don't want their cookies). (Confused yet?)
Note that this doesn't stop adverts, it just means they will be the 'normal' random selection. You need to use add-on software or deeper browser settings to actually block adverts completely.

The two sites I know of and use are:
Network Advertising Initiative at> http://www.networkadvertising.org/managing/opt_out.asp
your online choices at> http://www.youronlinechoices.com/opt-out
but there may be others.
You do not need to register at these sites or give any information. The links above go direct to the 'action' page (they are from my bookmarks), but you can browse the sites for more information if you want.
Don't worry if there are duplicates between their lists - they will work.

malcolmfrary

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2012, 11:16:34 AM »

Quite apart from flogging your shopping history to the world and presenting your recent shopping to any family member who uses the PC, an annoyance for me is the bone-headed way it is applied.  Last year, I bought a camera.  Nice one, good price, fairly unique in that it was a compact with a real viewfinder so I could use it outdoors in sunlight.  Many months on, I am still getting informed of camera deals, none of which match in any way what I was looking for in the first place.  How many cameras do they hope to sell me?
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dodgy geezer

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2012, 03:38:09 PM »

This is part of the reason that I have many different personas on the net, as well as several different machines that I use for each of them....

May I also encourage people to use 'Mailinator'  http://mailinator.com/ when asked for an email address by someone who you never expect to contact again? This is a simple mailbox service which creates mailboxes as you use them and then disposes of them at the end of each day - all untraceable (without a prior warrant and interception kit installed!). You simply pick a name - say, Fred, and then give your address as 'fred@mailinator.com'. Then go to mailinator.com, type in 'fred' to the 'Check your Mailbox' window and your mail comes up. This keeps your main address free of spam....

 No security or passwords - perfect for a one-use mailing address to get yourself signed onto a web page or something. I've just sent a mail to 'mayhem@mailinator.com' - go and read it... :-)) :-)) 
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sailorboy61

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Re: EU - Cookie Monster ....
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2012, 04:05:02 PM »

This is part of the reason that I have many different personas on the net, as well as several different machines that I use for each of them....

May I also encourage people to use 'Mailinator'  http://mailinator.com/ when asked for an email address by someone who you never expect to contact again? This is a simple mailbox service which creates mailboxes as you use them and then disposes of them at the end of each day - all untraceable (without a prior warrant and interception kit installed!). You simply pick a name - say, Fred, and then give your address as 'fred@mailinator.com'. Then go to mailinator.com, type in 'fred' to the 'Check your Mailbox' window and your mail comes up. This keeps your main address free of spam....

 No security or passwords - perfect for a one-use mailing address to get yourself signed onto a web page or something. I've just sent a mail to 'mayhem@mailinator.com' - go and read it... :-)) :-)) 


Handy Andy this...... :o
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