Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: A Cautionary Tale  (Read 2015 times)

Nordsee

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 204
  • Location: Geldern, Germany, previously Xanten.
A Cautionary Tale
« on: July 27, 2012, 06:40:07 PM »

Last Sunday on the evening Local News there was an item about a group of model Glider flyers, who had a nasty mishap. The man involved was flying a Electric Powered Glider, and he suffered a signal loss and subsequent " Fly Away" No failsafe it seemed, The errant model flew over a kilometre until it struck overhead power cables, there was a blinding flash and the stricken model fell to the ground, burning fiercly. It crashed in a field of wheat, ready for harvest.The stalks were dry and burst into flames, before the Fire Brogade arrived the fire had spread rapidly and nearly half the field was destroyed, the rest was deemed not viable to harvest. Now there is the question, "Who pays??" Is the owner of the model liable or his club? It seems the model was fitted with Lipos and the Fire Brigade was unable to extinguish them with water, but we know that don't we? Knotty problem, and a warning that it can happen to any of us, Insurance is important!
 If any of you can understand German, if you go to www.aktuellestunde.de and go on to last Sundays programme you can see the video yourselves.
Logged

john s 2

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,184
  • Location: Southend on Sea Essex
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2012, 08:52:56 PM »

A perfect example of sods law. Lets hope that insurence was in force and if so will they pay if no failsafe? If not then someones got a big bill. John.
Logged

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,620
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 09:52:33 PM »

If he didn't have a failsafe, the insurance company might decide that his insurance was void.  If the club rules did not demand use of one, that is another avenue of escape for the insurance company, and a problem for the club, and possibly any other model flying club.
Logged
"With the right tool, you can break anything" - Garfield

wullie/mk2

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 793
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 11:30:49 PM »

These things happen!...blame it on the pilot,
Logged
Wullie,s place is an apology free zone

nick_75au

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 257
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia
    • Logan City Marine Modellers
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2012, 08:25:24 AM »

Logged

Norseman

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,484
  • Location: Huyton, Liverpool
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2012, 06:31:22 PM »

Thanks for the link Nick

Now I hadn't thought about damaging anything - not ever considered a fire.
Who does uk boat insurance then?

Dave
Logged

Brian Roberts

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 160
  • Location: Wrexham - Land of my Fathers
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2012, 07:59:02 PM »

Hi Dave

I have a Certificate of Public Liability Insurance through the BMPRS, get in touch with them and I'm sure they'll help.

Brian
Logged

Norseman

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,484
  • Location: Huyton, Liverpool
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2012, 08:06:22 PM »

Thanks for the quick reply Brian

Dave
Logged

kinmel

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 705
  • Colwyn Bay M.B.C.
  • Location: Conwy, in sunny north Wales
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2012, 08:38:06 AM »

Thanks for the link Nick

Now I hadn't thought about damaging anything - not ever considered a fire.
Who does uk boat insurance then?

Dave

Our Club provides each member with £5million insurance cover with a block policy from THIS Insurance using a broker, Ribble Insurance Services Ltd.
Logged

Artistmike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,015
  • North Devon
  • Location: North Devon
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2012, 08:55:40 AM »

Membership of many of the Model Boat governing bodies offer various third party insurance schemes of differing types, I know that the MYA does and so do many local clubs. .. Like most insurance it's a bit of a pain to think about but if something does go wrong, no matter how unlikely, the result of not having it can be a bit traumatic ..  :((
Logged
“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” George Bernard Shaw    :)

CF-FZG

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 235
  • Location: Oxfordshire
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2012, 03:01:47 PM »

Last Sunday on the evening Local News there was an item about a group of model Glider flyers, who had a nasty mishap. The man involved was flying a Electric Powered Glider, and he suffered a signal loss and subsequent " Fly Away" No failsafe it seemed, The errant model flew over a kilometre until it struck overhead power cables, there was a blinding flash and the stricken model fell to the ground, burning fiercly. It crashed in a field of wheat, ready for harvest.The stalks were dry and burst into flames, before the Fire Brogade arrived the fire had spread rapidly and nearly half the field was destroyed, the rest was deemed not viable to harvest. Now there is the question, "Who pays??" Is the owner of the model liable or his club? It seems the model was fitted with Lipos and the Fire Brigade was unable to extinguish them with water, but we know that don't we? Knotty problem, and a warning that it can happen to any of us, Insurance is important!
 If any of you can understand German, if you go to www.aktuellestunde.de and go on to last Sundays programme you can see the video yourselves.

Okay, there seems to be some ignorance about insurance here, (I'm referring to most of the posts so far, not just the first that I've quoted here), so I think a few explanations are needed.

Firstly the caveat - this is how things work under UK law - Germany is similar, but not sure if the 'Failsafe rule' applies the same as it does here.

1.  Who's liable for the cost of the damage? - to be decided either by your insurers or a court of law if a claim is made against you.

2.  General flying - under the Air Navigation Order, the operator of any aircraft is responsible for ensuring the flight can be made in a safe manner, (yes, the same rule applies to a toy as it does to a 747).

3.  Failsafes - if a model aircraft weight over 7kg dry, (minus fuel), it must have a failsafe that will reduce the throttle to idle as a minimum.  If the radio control unit has a failsafe built in then it must be operable, irrespective of model size.

4.  Insurance - if you have it, the only one you need is third party liability insurance.

5.  How does it work - quite simple really, you have an accident that involves a third party, (person or property, makes no difference). 
                                The third party makes a claim against you, so you pass it onto your insurers, they will investigate, and if you are liable for any damages they will pay up.
                                Sometimes this decision will be made in a court of law, other times they will 'accept' liability on your behalf.
                                The only time they can refuse to pay up if liability is determined - is when it's a deliberate or illegal act, (but they will usually pay up to the third party and then come after you for the money :police:)

Now the important bit to remember
                                                              if you are liable, you or your insurers will pay up, if you are not liable then they won't pay.    It's why its called 'liability' insurance.

BMFA provide £10M of liability insurance, IIRC the LMA and MAA provide the same level.
BMFA cover extends to model boats too and also provides Crown Indemnity.
The amount of cover you need is decided/agreed by your landowner - usually the local council for ponds/lakes and seems to be the £5M figure - shows/events looks to be the £10M figure.

Incidentally, the highest payout by the BMFA insurers was for an accident involving a paper airplane, (you know, the type you fold up from a sheet of paper), where the injured party lost the sight in one eye.


Mark.
Logged
Mark.

Tonka Toys - Big boys toys :)

deadwood

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 173
  • Location: Berlin
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2012, 08:46:13 AM »

@Nordsee and @Nick

Unfortunately both your links are stale, but blame it on the ruddy WDR Mediathek site.
Broadcasting stations (regulated by public law) usually let their online contents expire very quickly on the Web.
I think they do it, often in anticipatory obedience, in order to avoid any issues about (uncharged for, because it's already covered by the mandatory fees here in Germany) content promulgation with their private contenders.
So I couldn't read the article anymore.
But the story really sounds a bit contrived, say like they seem to make up cases in law study courses for academic purposes.

@Mark

thanks for your founded explanations. Are you working in the area of jurisdiction/legislation?
Though I am hopelessly clueless in this field, I have the notion that German (insurance/liability) law doesn't deviate that much from that in the UK.
I also would have assumed that my personal third party liability insurance would cover such a case, provided I didn't act deliberately or grossly negligent.







Logged

Nordsee

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 204
  • Location: Geldern, Germany, previously Xanten.
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2012, 10:59:46 AM »

The story was not contrived, if it was there were lots of people in the Scam! Police, Fire Brigade, Club Members and who wants their field of standing wheat burnt just for a News Clip? No, it was real OK.
Logged

deadwood

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 173
  • Location: Berlin
Re: A Cautionary Tale
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2012, 12:51:29 PM »

I didn't write that it was contrived, but rather sounded so to me.
In reality the weirdest things do happen.
The Japanese hadn't reckoned a Tsunami to be a much more likely risk to their nuclear power plants than the more evident direct impact from an earthquake.
And who would have thought that a conservative government here in Germany, where we never have experienced Tsunamis and only minor scale earthquakes,
would in a snap decision relinquish this witch craft while feeling more comfortable supporting such technology in our neighbouring countries by importing hence generated electricity from them?

Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up