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Author Topic: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of  (Read 3070 times)

Capitaine LaGaffe

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Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« on: August 05, 2012, 03:30:14 PM »

Greetings,

Apart from using
1. A couple of Voith-Schneider Propellers (p'hap a ferry style double-ender with one at each end),
2. One or more Schottel units, or
3. Twin screws (I have a contraption with twin screws and steerable Kort nozzles, everything independently controlled witch tends to confuse my poor brain so my [stupid] idea is to try something else possible less taxing for mu brain)
Which provides more maneuverability (assuming a single screw and probably a bow thruster)?
A. A Steerable Kort nozzle
B. A fixed Kort + rudder
C. Fixed Kort + Becker rudder
D. No nozzle, becker rudder
E. No nozzle, twin rudders (a lot of the river boats/ship exhibited as models at the SWiss transportation museum in Luzern had a single screw and twin rudders IIRC).
F. No nozzle, plain old rudder.
6. Something else I haven't thought about.

tia/tm
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Circlip

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2012, 04:20:45 PM »

Twin Kitchin.

Regards  Ian.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2012, 04:29:21 PM »


Multiple rudders
Bow & stern thrusters
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nemesis

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2012, 05:07:58 PM »

Hi, Keep it simple, steering Kort with a slightly elongated rudder. By the time you have mastered that system you can move onto something else, altho you may find that there is no need to do so. Nemesis
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Netleyned

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2012, 05:33:59 PM »

Different hull shapes need different ideas.
Becker rudders can be very efficient behind a kort
or behind a big prop.

Ned
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Capitaine LaGaffe

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 07:19:51 PM »

Any difference when going astern?
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nemesis

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 07:50:59 PM »

Hi, A steering Kort, Yes, very good both ways. A fixed (Towmaster ) Kort is not so good even with the Becker. My opinion and experience only. I can do figure of eights astern with one boat using a steering kort, can not with the other, Keep it simple,
            Nemesis
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pima

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 09:21:59 PM »

twin screw twin rudders,on a hydroconic hull you can a tug dance.
   pima.
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tobyker

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2012, 01:11:43 AM »

Independently driven paddles?
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CGAux26

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 05:02:20 AM »

And always, as in "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?  Practice, practice, practice."  O0
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Capitaine LaGaffe

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 07:26:10 PM »

Independently driven paddles?
Not very good if you want to go sideways. I have a side-wheeler like that; don't know what a quarter-wheeler is like in practice.
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Capitaine LaGaffe

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 07:42:00 PM »

Hi, A steering Kort, Yes, very good both ways. A fixed (Towmaster ) Kort is not so good even with the Becker. My opinion and experience only. I can do figure of eights astern with one boat using a steering kort, can not with the other, Keep it simple,
            Nemesis
Definitely one thing in favour of a single steerable Kort: it's simple. Especially compared to a North American style set up with steering and flanking rudders. KISS indeed!

(Conceptually simple, and something neither my brain nor my thumbs would have much problem with, is a double-ender ferry-style twin-VSP setup, but VSPs are not uncomplicated to set up and the nearest pond is very shallow )
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DavieTait

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2012, 08:00:38 PM »

triple rudder behind a prop/kort combination , being put onto fishing boats up here just now as it maximises bollard pull when turning so would be useful on a tug as well

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Norseman

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2012, 08:08:37 PM »

I'd say a couple of new Seals on the rudder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUCBx9zx-UA&feature=related

Dave
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nemesis

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2012, 10:46:10 PM »

Hi, Davey, I hope they do not get the nets caught up in that lot, I can remember the clart on when they started to use Korts. My diver friend made a lot of money cutting the nets free. Nemesis
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DavieTait

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2012, 11:01:14 PM »

the older boats didn't have enough power in the winch's to haul the gear in when going ahead thats why there was problems initially , the boats now have winches so powerful that they will pull a 200t 21m boat backwards when the engine is in gear and would have been towing the gear at 2knots !!! ( 20t bollard pull minimum per barrel , 3 barrel winches !! )
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roycv

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Re: Maximizing Maneuverability Sort of
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2012, 10:32:01 AM »

Hi all, I have a small 28 inches cabin cruiser (Graupner Condor, scratch built from the plans, 50 years ago).  Some years ago I modified it to have a fixed kort nozzle and twin rudders ahead of prop and a single astern. (like the American tow boats).

 I am afraid it made very little difference to maneuverability, it may be because there is not much power there? (6 volts about an amp current).

I was hoping for better control astern.
regards Roy
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