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[pakirk]

Ultimate Speed Controller.

Hi all.
I am in the process of designing a new speed controller. I have a Question for you all.
What would YOU consider being the UTLAMATE???

So far the speed controller has the following.

Dimensions 40x40x20 mm
Volts 1v to 48V
Constant load 36A
Peak load 130A
Copes with Short term battery reverse polarity (starts to get Hot but does not blow up and still works)
Battery Under voltage protection (Warns you to prevent deep cell discharge)
Easy 1 button setup.
Acceleration rate programmable
Independent Forward and reverse max speed set.
Automatic revere delay, The unit monitors the prop RPM to determine the safest time to revere the motor. This protects and prolongs the like of the FTEs, Relay contacts, coupling and you motor.
Automatic variable Frequency. The unit analyses the motor constantly and varies the frequency to get maximum efficiency from the motor, this results in a good slow start to full speed range. This also makes your motor batteries last longer.
Failsafe. Any loss of signal will stop the motor.

Any comments, ideas or wishes.
I do intend to have this unit on the market soon.
 

[HS93 (RIP)]

Built in input and output fuses, you could then put a diode across the input to blow the fuse if the input is reversed, also as most of the people use ctr in scale boat a decent heatsink would not be a problem because of weight.

Peter

[pakirk]

Hi
I did put built in fuse into the unit but the people testing it did not like this as they put the unit in an inacessable place. The fuse is now external on the leads.
There are some diodes in there setup in a fation that "soak up" the power if reverce polarity is aplies. theas can handle 140A reverce boised. Without a fuse the unit gets hot but survises.

There is a 40x40x2 mm  heatsink in the bace. which does not get hot. I have run a unit at 40A continouslay for 7 days and the fets did not even get warm.

[bigfella]

Hi

The only other thing I can think of (as you have covered just about everything) is a reasonable price.

Regards David

[Martin (Admin)]

Instead of fuses, ( very slow and the unit usually pops first I've found ) how about overload or thermal shutdown, much like PC these days that won't run without a heatsink..... just thinking out loud!  :-\

[classicdelights]

Hello Pakirk
May I suggest that you check the unit with as many types of receiver as you can to make sure it is compatable with both PCM and PPM units.  Please see my post about Electronize ESC on this site.
Kind Regards

[JayDee]

Hello Pakirk,
The size of the unit does not have to be very, very small, there is plenty of room in most boat hulls for a larger unit than the ones used in RC cars.
Some of the car units I have seen quote power ratings out of all proportion to the overall size of the unit, just how do they manage to handle all that power - - - - or do they ??.

The power ratings of modern electronic components is so great that the wiring, motor, or batteries should fail first, NOT the speed controller !!.
At the moment the speed controller seems to be the weakest link, it has no need to be.

John.     

[HS93 (RIP)]

Some boat speed ctr only have one fet Electronize has one, I have a car ctr that has ten fets,the weak part of some ctr is the relays,most cars have forward only. I altered my Electronize and put four fets in it and it ran a 700bb with a big prop and stayed stone cold,where as before it got hot.

Peter

[colin-stevens]

how about 2 speed controls and a mixer in one?cut down on the hassle of finding a mixer that will work with the ever changing speed controlers, cut down on the anoying wiring loom.
colin

[FullLeatherJacket]

Give up now. You've more chance of finding the Holy Grail.
FLJ

[colin-stevens]

truest word i read on here.
colin

[riggers24]

how about 2 speed controls and a mixer in one?cut down on the hassle of finding a mixer that will work with the ever changing speed controlers, cut down on the anoying wiring loom.
colin

Electronize stated they had one on the board, but thats as far as it went. 18 months down the line and still nothing.

[colin-stevens]

got three electronize speed controllers, not one works. 2 Mtronics, not one works, and a couple of others, none work. bloody things

[pakirk]

Thanks all for your coments.
Why am I designing another speed controller? 2 reasons.

1. I have a large Life boat running on 36V 12A I could not get one that would run it. When I had it on 24V the one I had lasted
less than 1 houre even though it was rated at 24V 40A.

2.I have a draw FULL of dead speed controllers. Most have been passed to me from fellow members.
I have looked at every one of them and found design flaws and designed mine to avoid each one of them.

The power ratings of modern electronic components is so great that the wiring, motor, or batteries should fail first, NOT the speed controller !!.
At the moment the speed controller seems to be the weakest link, it has no need to be.

What I have found in testing my unit, the wiring, Motors or batteries have burnt out before this speed controller.

May I suggest that you check the unit with as many types of receiver as you can to make sure it is compatable with both PCM and PPM units.

Will do.

Instead of fuses, ( very slow and the unit usually pops first I've found ) how about overload or thermal shutdown, much like PC these days that won't run without a heatsink..... just thinking out loud!

This is very true. Usually by the time a "normal" slow blow fuse burns out the damage has been done" If you use a Fast Blow it will blow all the time as the initial power surge to start a motor will be well in-excess of the normal Amps.
The fuse in this unit is there to protect the motor and battery rather then the unit. The unit will auto shutdown when it is overloaded and I have found it takes some 160A to do this. Not an easy one to test.

how about 2 speed controls and a mixer in one? cut down on the hassle of finding a mixer that will work with the ever changing speed controllers, cut down on the anoying wiring loom.
colin

This was a possibility but i found that the cost would literally double, so no saving in build cost. It was desided it would be a burden for the user to fork out twice as much in one go. Rather they could bye one at a time them add one of my Mixer units.



I am also in the process of building a 2.4Ghz two way radio system. This system will come as a 8 channel proportional "PWM Servos" and 8 Digital "on off" channels. and will be expandable to anybody’s needs with easy to use plug in modules.  It also sends back info from the model Like Battery status, motor RPM, motor amps.
Your imagination it the limit with this system.
At the moment the system I have built for my model has 24 servos and 48 digital on off units. I also has compass showing direction of boat and radar working.

Thanks again for the comments. keep them coming. But don’t stop at the Speed controller. What else do you want to see.

[Doc]

The only thing I can think of has to do with how the thing would be rated.  Current draw and voltage makes much more sense rather than number of turn in the motor as some give.  A sort of 'conservative' rating would also be nice.  Most people tend to think that if it says 20 amps, or 50 amps, then it ought to do at least that, and maybe a little bit more.
(Not that you probably haven't already thought of that, but just in case.)  Some indication of overloading, or thermal problems would also be nice.
 - 'Doc

[boatmadman]

WATERPROOF!

[tigertiger]

A a sailing boat man I would like to see a wind direction indicator.

This would show the wind direction in relation to the centre line of the boat.
If this could be relayed back to a simple 8 point or 12 points of a circle LED display, or even an LCD display (must be able to be read in sunshine).

ON some waters the wind is variable and it can take a few seconds (or longer) to set the sails and catch the new air.

This might prove very popular with sail racers.

[Mike_K]

I'd like an esc that will allow me to have the prop just ticking over at the lowest setting but still give me full power when needed.  I do like an on/off switch too.  As long as you're asking about ultimate designs would regulated outputs for 3/6/12v be out of the question?  Be nice to be able to run lights/LED's and other fun stuff.  Size is not important.

Mike

[pakirk]

Thanks again for the comments KEEP THEM COMEING.

WATERPROOF!

I am thinking about this point very carefully. I would like to make them repairable incase one does get damaged. If I "POT" them then they would be a throw away job.

Code: [Select]

A a sailing boat man I would like to see a wind direction indicator. I presume you are talking about my Radio system? This would be a doddle for an add on for the Radio Transceiver system and a very good one too may I say. I can see this as being very useful. In conjunction with my compass unit this could be quite interesting.
Wind speed would also be do-able.

I'd like an esc that will allow me to have the prop just ticking over at the lowest setting but still give me full power when needed.

My speed controller will give you this. the Auto Variable frequency takes care of that. you get very fine tick-over to FULL speed. It is in fact not normal to have "FULL SPEED" on a ESC as most ESCs are inefficient and have a power loss over the FET. up to 1.2V in some ESCs I have looked at.
Ever wondered why the motor in your boat goes faster when you try it direct to the battery, then it is slightly slower when you use your ESC, well that’s why. My unit overcomes this and there is virtually NO power loss.

I do like an on/off switch too.

Do you mean a main power switch on the ESC to cut all the power from main battery?

would regulated outputs for 3/6/12v be out of the question?

  Interesting question and quite topical at the moment amongst my friends.
Yes I agree 3,6,12V very useful. To keep things cheep this would require two Voltage regulators assuming the main battery is 12V. If the main battery is only 6V or something this is do-able but more expensive.  Voltage regulators  are very inefficient. I DON’T LIKE THEM.  For example you have a 12V battery and you want 6V at say 1A. The regulator has to get rid of “WASTE” 6V at 1A to do this it gets very hot. 60 wats of wasted energy not what you want in a model is it. For a 3.3V this is even worse. 8.7V 1A to waste this is 87W very hot.
I would not do this, as a build in feature  on an ESC. I have how ether just made such a unit for someone for this reason. He wanted 3.3v, 6v,12V from a 6V battery for his lights and smoke unit. A made him a voltage PUMP power unit. It will run off any battery from 4.8V to 24V and will give 3.3V,6V,12V up to 6A per output. This cost him £40. A bit much to ask as a teacher.

This is also why my ESC does not have BEC.

Thanks

[Mike_K]

Thanks for the reply to my input.  As for the switch, I'd like to cut all power so that I don't have to disconnect the battery between runs.  I don't mind not having a BEC except in small boats.  I don't mind having a dedicated battery for the radio.  The LED's can be powered from that set of batteries.  If your unit is repairable then don't waterproof it.  So many electronic units today break and there's no sense in repairing them as it costs nearly as much to fix as to purchase! 

Any idea the cost of your proposed unit shipped to the US?

Mike

[pakirk]

Here’s an interesting idea regarding the dreaded question “HOW MUCH”.
Why don’t you tell me how much you are willing to pay for a GOOD Electronic Speed Controller?
I will take a reasonable price and work out how good a unit could be made for that price. And how many theaters I could pack in to it.
Just an idea.

[pakirk]

Hi Mike_k
The last post was not directed to you, It was for everaone in general. I must have been typeing whilst you were posting.

I agree there are too many electronics that can't be repaired. I have many ESC unit in my draw that are un-repairable and its a wast. Most of the conponents in my unit are expensice. ie. there are FETs and there are FETs there are FETs that are the same spec to the one I use that cost £0.74 and the one I use costs £4.25. The diference is quality and I use GOOD quality conponents. If the unit paks in, then  the  conponent can be replased. so say if the FET blows then it can be replased for £4.25 rather that throwing the unit in the trash and replaceing the hole unit.
 

[Mike_K]

Here’s an interesting idea regarding the dreaded question “HOW MUCH”.
Why don’t you tell me how much you are willing to pay for a GOOD Electronic Speed Controller?

I'm probably not the best one to ask as to what I'm willing to pay.  I'm a bit on the cheap side.  I'd say that a good, reliable and repairable esc should be around $50US. There are many that cost more and a good number that cost less.  It would probably be best if you tallied your cost for an esc that you feel comfortable selling and then adding a reasonable markup.  I'm not in manufacturing so I can't really advise you on this.

Mike

[Shipmate60]

pakirk,
As you will be aware ESC's cost from £20-00 upwards.
Most of the "locally" made ones are around the £20-00 mark.
Electronize over £30-00
It really depends where you see your market.
Most modellers with scale boats using 15 amp ESC's are ok with paying £20-00 for a reasonable one.
One problem with any new product is that you have to get the time in to prove its reliability and compete with the current manufacturers.
So it will come down to cost of manufacture and profit margin.
Over to you  pakirk  :)
What is your target price range?

Bob

[rats]

In my opinion if it will do all the things you say it will - then cost shouldn't be a problem ; I would rather pay £100 and know it will last for years then spend £50 and have to replace it every 6-9 months
           I wish you every success and will be one of your first customers !