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Author Topic: pompey harbour  (Read 14153 times)

Bryan Young

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Re: pompey harbour
« Reply #100 on: November 08, 2007, 11:47:55 pm »

I have very little regard for the modern RN for various reasons, but I would argue that their role in the modern world is quite valuable to the well-being of the United Kingdom (not just England). They...and the RFA...seem to be doing a tremendous job in helping out the USA with the anti-drug smuggling operations off the US coasts. But is that really what a "blue water" navy is for?
Conversely, whenever there has been a "natural" disaster in almost any place in the world there has been an RN/RFA presence to help out. This facility is being removed quite rapidly with the logical conclusion being that those we used to help will no longer be able to thank the UK for assistance. Thus loss of potential good-will. It's all very well having a superb underwater Navy, but being invisible does not win hearts and minds. Which brings me to the subject of the "new" carriers. Do you really think they are going to happen? What does a "full-scale" carrier need? Well, not being nuclear, it(they) will need a fleet train of replenishment ships for a start. How many have we got? The main replenishment ships also need replenishing....by what? The carriers themselves need protection by frigates/destroyers/cruisers whatever...where are they? The carriers will need a crew of at least 600 people so double that for crew leave/training rotation etc. 2 carriers. That means 4x600 =2400 personnel for the carriers alone. (not counting any shore staff). Given that the average age of a naval "seafarer" is about 26, what size town will be denuded of young people just to man these things. I reckon "those who govern us" will pull the plug (as Wilson did) after spending countless £billions and we will be left with no Navy. Thats my opinion anyway. BY.
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Notes from a simple seaman

Colin Bishop

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Re: pompey harbour
« Reply #101 on: November 09, 2007, 12:02:55 am »

I agree with most of what you say Bryan. However, as with the "Through Deck Cruisers" I think the RN have a cunning plan. They will get the carriers built by sacrificing the older obsolete ships like the type 42s then they will turn around to the Government and say "we have these valuable assets but they need to be properly protected like the US task Groups with a SSN plus surface escorts (Darings)" So there will be little option but to enhance the escort capability. I'm not sure of the crew requirements for the new carriers but the Darings are very "crew efficient" compared with earlier ships.

The big problem with the carriers seems to be the air wings. The US are still insisting on Lockheed maintaining the Joint Strike Fighter which is considered to be unacceptable by the RN. I'm told that the French Rafaele is being considered as an alternative, especially as France seems keen to build a similar carrier to ours following the rather lacklustre performance of Charles de Gaulle.
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Shipmate60

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Re: pompey harbour
« Reply #102 on: November 09, 2007, 05:45:27 pm »

The First one of the Type 23's sold to Chilean Navy sailed today.
I have a few pics on my phone as I was in today.
I will post as soon as I download them.

Bob
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Officially a GOG.

gingyer

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Re: pompey harbour
« Reply #103 on: November 10, 2007, 12:16:06 am »

The US are still insisting on Lockheed maintaining the Joint Strike Fighter which is considered to be unacceptable by the RN. I'm told that the French Rafaele is being considered as an alternative, especially as France seems keen to build a similar carrier to ours following the rather lacklustre performance of Charles de Gaulle.
Hi Colin
Locheed were never going to maitnain them Colin. The problem was that if britain wanted to adapt/alter the aircraft they had to get the permision of the US and it had to be done by the US. this has now been Ironed out and britain will be allowed to upgrade as they like with out
getting the US to agree. The RAF will now be getting these aircraft

The problem for the aircraft for the carriers is the french.
the design is for three carriers 2 brittish 1 french. the naval JSF aircraft destined for carrier use will be used like the Aegis system on the
US warships both the ship and aircraft systems completly intregrated and each can be accessed from the other. This means that if a pilot is on a mission to attack a target then a priority mission comes in the ship can automaticaly upload them new mission including maps/ attack runs etc with out the pilot having to get to bogged down trying to re-calculate the new mission it will already be done for them, the weapons can even be fired back at the ship like a UAV. The US do not want any chance of the french getting their hands on this technology incase they sell to the highest bidder (not like them) until this is sorted then the back up is to navalise the Typhoon.

I would be very surprised if the bought the french rafale. After all it was mostly design by us when france were a part of the euro fighter project then pulled out taking all the designs and info with them and then they produced the Rafale.

Colin
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Colin Bishop

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Re: pompey harbour
« Reply #104 on: November 10, 2007, 07:51:29 pm »

Thanks for the correction and more details Colin. My source was somebody in the Dartmouth Naval College but I might have misunderstood the distinction between maintenance and upgrading. I can appreciate the US not wanting France to get their hands on the JSF technology. I would imagine that there's some playing politics been going on re the Rafaele.

Are the French definitely going ahead with their carrier do you know?
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gingyer

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Re: pompey harbour
« Reply #105 on: November 10, 2007, 10:26:53 pm »

The French are doing what they are best at.....not making a decision
the position they hold is that they are going to wait until the 1st is finally
designed and being built then they will decide if they want one.
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