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Author Topic: Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)  (Read 2597 times)

Cello

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Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)
« on: August 08, 2012, 07:07:23 PM »

Hi everyone - first post here so please be gentle with me!

I've been restoring old powered models (crash tenders, huntsman, royal barge types, etc) for more years than I care to count... I've fancied for a long time to tackle an old yacht and courtesy of eBay, I now have my project.

I liked the lines of this one (see original eBay photos below - although I don't like the keel shape really, but it's underwater, so...) and the fact it was powered also got me interested.

What I'd love to know is if anyone can identify it, or what kind of yacht family it may have come from.

Dimensions are: L = 105cm, B = 27cm and D = 30cm (from deck to bottom of keel)

Since receiving the yacht I have taken all the non-original mechanics out (interesting as they were).

There are 2 mast locations in the keel - so this is where I really get stumped; I have no idea about the sail plan! Any thoughts or photos for reference? There is one mast that seems short, so I am assuming it is the foremast - but what height the main mast; sails - and where might I be able to buy some to specific size requirements? And then there's whether she was a scale model of an existing full size yacht, freelance stand-off scale - or just freelance/scratch; so what might have been on her decks?

Lastly, along the top of the deck edge you'll see the dark original planking and what looks like to be newer raised deck edge. I guess I won't know until I've taken it back to the wood to see if in fact it is original or an add on sometime later.

Thoroughly appreciate any thoughts you might have and they are warmly welcomed as I am bit out of my depth at the moment...  :o

I realise I've asked lots of questions in my first post - apologies...

1. Anyone know anything about this design?
2. Sail Plan with two masts - any points of reference?
3. Where to get bespoke sails?
4. What might have been on her decks (ie scale, standoff or racing model - doubt it with that keel!)?

By the way, I paid £40 for her just in case any of you were wondering...

Right - here's the pics...











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mrpenguin

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Re: Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2012, 01:09:44 AM »

@Cello:
Looking at the chain plates, I would think the forward mast is the smaller of the two. This would make it a schooner rig. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailboat for a description of the various sail plans.

Re the sails - make your own - it is not that hard.... plenty of guidance online. I have made a few sets - old spinaker material, ripstop or kite fabric are all likely candidates. I have made sails a few times, pretty easy once you get the hang of it and not much cost.

The internals shown in the photos are amazing - this is obviously a very old boat, long before the days of sailwinches that make it easy for us now...

It would seem that there are the remains of a propellor system as well? I would guess it may have originally been motorised and converted to sail but only guessing.

Looks like a great project - enjoy!
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Artistmike

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Re: Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2012, 07:29:18 AM »

An interesting boat and it looks like it's had a very varied life ! ... Obviously a lot of those full height, lighter coloured frames and cross pieces, that support the partially antique radio controlled system , are in themselves later additions to the hull, as the originals are the half frames that are a darker colour. So this boat was no doubt originally built long before even early basic radio control was around.

So I suppose your first question is, to what period do you wish to restore the boat?   ... Looking at the keel that too has been modified, and those chain plates are definitely not original, can you ascertain the original position of the rudder as a matter of interest ?  The mast steps also look relatively new too so the original sail plan may have been different as well.

It looks like you've an interesting job in hand there. The Vintage Model Yacht Group may be able to give you more info, given accurate dimensions of the hull but it's going to take some detective work to decide how to re-rig it to it's best advantage, but it should be lots of fun !    %%
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“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” George Bernard Shaw    :)

triumphjon

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Re: Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2012, 07:59:11 AM »

very interesting project , think id replace all of those " cotton reel winches " for modern compact winches , the hitec ones have a good torque and are reasonably priced at around £ 30 each !  i took on a similar restoration at the end of last summer with a 1920s pond yacht hull , which has now got 3 ch radio installed , and a gaff rigged sail plan on a single mast all four sails have been kindly sewn by my partner from egypitian cotton . jon
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Artistmike

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Re: Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 08:59:46 AM »

very interesting project , think id replace all of those " cotton reel winches " for modern compact winches , the hitec ones have a good torque and are reasonably priced at around £ 30 each !  i took on a similar restoration at the end of last summer with a 1920s pond yacht hull , which has now got 3 ch radio installed , and a gaff rigged sail plan on a single mast all four sails have been kindly sewn by my partner from egypitian cotton . jon

I agree, ripping out all those non-original  bits of radio control kit will give a much cleaner hull to start a more sympathetic modern restoration and upgrade....
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“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” George Bernard Shaw    :)

Cello

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Re: Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 03:10:15 PM »

Great replies - many thanks!

I intend to get her back to wood as soon as possible to see if the lighter wood is indeed retrofitted.

Does anyone know a good resource of circa-1920s schooner model photos? I've tried some of the more popular vintage website (VMYG for example) but nothing inspiring so far.

Appreciate your comments - thanks again  :-)
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hmsantrim

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Re: Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2012, 04:04:41 PM »

 Hi Cello.
            what about morphing it into an argus.  http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/16895/argus-mm405

             Frank. :P
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tugs62

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Re: Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2012, 05:13:51 PM »

hi cello i also have just bought an old yacht off ebay and it will be my first yacht after refurbishing a sea queen qnd crash tender so will be watching with intrest


thanks Brian
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Cello

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Re: Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 06:40:23 PM »

Hi Cello.
            what about morphing it into an argus.  http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/16895/argus-mm405

             Frank. :P

That's a great idea! I'll look into it :)


hi cello i also have just bought an old yacht off ebay and it will be my first yacht after refurbishing a sea queen qnd crash tender so will be watching with intrest


thanks Brian

Much like me... good luck with your project! I'm going to post a pic or two tomorrow now that I've removed the retrofit nonsense and taken the paint off her.
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drillrod

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Re: Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 08:11:28 PM »

I might be wrong but I believe what you have there is a knock-off of the 40" Schooner designed by FJ Camm (see book, Model Boat Building by FJ Camm, 1940.)   I say 'knock-off" because the dimensions of your hull are slightly greater. Camm's schooner is 40 inches LOD, 9 inch beam, 9 inch draft, displaces around 9-1/2 lbs and carries about 5-1/2 lbs of lead.   The deck is rather plain with two hatches--one for hand grip and another concealing the steering business.

The similarity between Camm's hull and yours is unmistakable, especially the built-up fin keel and rudder configuration, and the nine built-up ribs and their screw attachment to the backbone.  As a matter of fact, it appears the builder of your hull extended the leading edge of the original keel. I don't know what effect that would have had on the sailing qualities other than to change the ratio of the CLR to the sail plan's Center of Effort.  (The original design was supposedly excellent under most sailing conditions. )

There's scant information out there on this particular yacht. I have researched it to the extent that several examples still exist in the UK, and have since obtained a full-size, redrawn plan from Float A Boat.com (Australia) for building mine, which I intend to RC.

For anyone inclined to order a plan, Float A Boat's plan is lines only---there are no construction details, but it does include a dimensioned sail and spar plan.  The downside is that the rigging details are left to the builder. Also, the plan is shipped folded and is rather pricey with postage to the USA.  Float A Boat purchased the copyrights to the plan. So, as far as I know, there are no other sources for this plan aside from the book illustrations, which can be enlarged full size with standard drafting equipment.  I hope this helps with identifying your hull.
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Cello

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Re: Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 10:00:54 PM »

Wow, drillrod - I think you're right!

From the one or two pics I could google, the construction is identical (as observed by you). The extended keel always looked strange and also I can see that the motor installation is definitely retrofit (but done well).

But it's the hull formers that give it away! Exactly the same - additionally even the rudder is exactly the same shape. The only difference I can see is in her bows - different shape, which supports your 'knock-off' theory (in addition to the different dimensions). But there's definitely a bowsprit been on this yacht and still has the original twisted wire attached with an eye to the bow to accommodate.

So - I've contacted float a boat and I've bought the Camm edition from Amazon.

But I do like the 'Argus' idea (mentioned in posts above) so I will be using the sail plan of the 'Camm' edition, getting hull as close as possible, then with a few cabin/skylight details faithful to the period (1940) and look forward to seeing her on the water :)

Thanks so much for taking the time to join this forum to make this valuable post - much appreciated!!!

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triumphjon

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Re: Another restoration of an old yacht thread :)
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 08:19:39 AM »

are you going to leave the forward area of the keel as is with its step on the lower section ? i often sail in an area which frequently  has patches of weed just below the surface , my models with the bulb protruding the fin often get stuck , whereas those with a faired in bulb manage to push the weed down below the hull and allow me to continue sailing  ! jon
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