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Author Topic: ABP should be shot!!!  (Read 2744 times)

Neil

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ABP should be shot!!!
« on: September 09, 2012, 08:16:10 PM »

Went down to Fleetwood dockside this morning and saw a "tall ship" in the river motionless.

I couldn't see her, except for the masts from the road, so went onto the dockside where the Stena ferries used to tie up for their cargos before going off to Larne and Belfast.
I was appalled to see that the tall ship had anchored because of lack of water in the river and that the ferry terminal was mud bound, even though the river wasn't yet on low water...................

This is all down to Associated British Ports, who own Fleetwood docks, refusing to dredge the river.

It's no wonder we no longer have any fishing vessels of size using the port, and even the yachts and gin palace's are leaving the port in flotilla's...........

What a sad end to a once famous port.........

One disgusted resident.

neil.
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deadwood

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2012, 12:33:54 AM »

Hi Neil,

could it be that environmentalists' protests have prevented the necessary dredging for safe shipping in Fleetwood so far?

A while ago I listened to this podcast from the BBC series "Costing the Earth" where they report about controversial views on dredging parts of the Falmouth Natural Harbour.


Ralph
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NFMike

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2012, 08:16:23 PM »

Or is it simply that the number of boats using the port has already fallen to a point where the fees obtained simply aren't enough to cover the cost of dredging. From what you say the Stena ferries used to provide some of that income but have now left and no doubt fishing boats are declining (as everywhere).

So it could be a simple case like a corner shop: not enough users = gone.

dodes

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2012, 08:17:50 PM »

ABP is a commercial enterprise, if there is not enough commerce to cover/justify the costs of dredging, then why should they. Also a lack of vessel traffic will allow a port or river to silt up as regular movement of vessels stir up the silt which is then washed away, most of the creeks up the Medway which had regular barge and coaster traffic are so silted up there is in places barely enough water to float a dingy let alone a barge wanting 6 feet plus.
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dave301bounty

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2012, 08:28:37 PM »

that  picture is a pretty site of a tall ship ,yet it isnt, as you say she should be alongside ,she was also one of the fleet that left liverpool dublin bound ,,but what is the answer to these silting problems ,one starter would be compulsary voting to get some decent sort of government ,,who is interested in this lot ,but we do need a start to get things going ,less of the nanny and a bit more ,prove it .
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Neil

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2012, 09:16:58 PM »

Mike and Dodes............Stena pulled out because ABP refused to dredge the channel and their ships kept either running aground or couldn't get in at certain times of the day.......ABP said that Stena should pay half towards dredging and stena refused....................SO abp stopped dredging altogether..
also there is the fact that there was a thriving fishing fleet that has now gone by the board and the marina which was set up to compliment the Freeport shopping mall is now less than 25% full................all due to ABP refusing to dredge.......they take the mooring fees and dock duties but give nothing back...........and the week willed local Wyre Borough council who haven't even got one of Fleetwoods great assets ( the Pier ) insured for fire even though it was a historical protected building..stand by and oooh and ahhh, and do sod all.....................so yes.......I stand by my statement and say they all at ABP needlining up against a wall and  P O P !!!!
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NFMike

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2012, 12:01:37 AM »

Fair enough, but probably still a commercial decision. If they could make money on it presumably they would, whereas letting it go like this is obviously going to end with nothing at all.
Unless they are playing chicken with Wyre council to try and get more money from them (unlikely I'd think, given the constraints on government spending these days.

Out of interest, who built the marina and mall?

Rottweiler

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2012, 12:24:56 AM »

 I think I may have commented on the dredging of Falmouth harbour previously,but anyway  here is my view. The main worry re the dredging at Falmouth ,is that it will be disturbing the Maerl beds.Maerl is some kind of calcified seaweed.Up until about 7 years ago,this same  stuff was being dredged up by the ton,for as long as I can remember,and being sold as a garden product! I bought some of the courser stuff,to put on my driveway,instead of the very expensive gravel or pebbles,that I could not afford.Deep dredging,will inevitably lead to cloudy water,thus some pollution,and I would imagine that the waste from the drydocks over the years  will have been in some way hazardous,I.E. the likes of TBT Anti fouling,but surely if it was that dangerous,the marine wildlife would have been affected? There is always fish to be seen around the docks.Again not far away are the Famous Falmouth Oyster beds,and further up river huge cultivated mussel strings.Surely all these would already been infected by the movement of shipping stirring up the bottom?
No,it is down to a few do gooders and conservationists,most of whom are not "locals".As with Fleetwood,the purpose of dredging would be to encourage the use of the Harbour, by being able to accommodate more,and larger vessels to use the port.
Mick F
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Neil

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2012, 07:56:41 AM »

Fair enough, but probably still a commercial decision.Out of interest, who built the marina and mall?

Oh it certainly is Mike.................their ultimate aim as anyone can see in the town is to run it down so much that the boats will all leave, they can then say there's no use for the docks, fill them in and build towny houses on the site, make a mint and sod off somewhere else and ruin other people's lively hoods by closing another docks.
they also have the "Wyre Barrier" to contend with where private consortium wants to put a barrier across the river to make a sort of inland lake.......they'd need to keep that tidy too, but if they close the docks, there's be no need for a barrier because apart from the yachts at Skipool creek there would be no boats

call me cynical but have lived in and around fleetwood fat too long ( my whole life in fact) not to see where people are trying to fool us.
neil.
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dodes

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2012, 09:50:29 PM »

I think it still comes down to commercial viability, if the profit margins were high enough from the ferries then probably something would have happen if only limited dredging to enable the ferries to carry on. But moving onto your building arguments, there are those who say the same about ABP at Southampton, there argument to build on the opposite side to Southampton because there is no room for the new deep water container berths required in the near future. Also means that as Southampton itself can no longer expand, the empty dock area would be worth as building land, astronomical value.
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justboatonic

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2012, 08:39:41 PM »

Stena \ P&O said they couldnt make the Fleetwood route pay. If they wanted an easy out, they could \ would just have blamed the lack of dredging as the reason.

TBH, the Wyre channel has never been a deep one and to be honest, I dont believe the depth of the channel now would prevent any trawler from Fleetwood's past operating out of the port now. When I was a lad, the channel wasnt dredged to the depth it was when Buffalo and Bison first ran the route. When the increased the tonnage of vessels, more dredging was done to accommodate these vessels.

You may be right that the cost of dredging may have been a factor but Im not convinced its the main reason. The fact is the terminal could only handle one ship a tide. There was talk in the early days of having a second berth further up river but that never came off due to cost and believe it or not, dredging issues.

What with the dredging that has been done at the Ro Ro berth, the channel is now a lot closer to the quayside than ever. I remember fishing the Jubilee Quay at low tide and you could walk a lot further out before you got to the water's edge.
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Norseman

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 11:38:07 PM »

(1) they can then say there's no use for the docks, fill them in and build towny houses on the site, make a mint

(2) have lived in and around fleetwood fat too long

(1) You can be sure someone has done all the possible numbers on the idea.
(2) no need to bring weight into it Neil  {-) {-) {-)

Dave
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malcolmfrary

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2012, 03:23:49 PM »

There also used to be a regular service of cargo (probably limestone) from North Wales to the ICI plant.  The channel probably needed dredging for that.  I know that ICI Hillhouse has changed beyond all recognition since I was a growing lad, and that source of traffic and therefore revenue might have dried.
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portside II

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Re: ABP should be shot!!!
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2012, 11:15:10 PM »

We have a simular problem at Goole , ABP refer to it as britans premmier inland port , but now i am not too sure as we used to have not one but two container trminals.
We now have none as they have pulled out due to no been able to get the ships there at normal high water.
They now come up as far as Imingham where there is deep waterand they can get the vessils with higher unit capacity,
We still have plenty of ships discharging and loading at Goole but most are under 5 meters draft .
daz
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