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Author Topic: Domestic Paints  (Read 2590 times)

mrsgoggins

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Domestic Paints
« on: September 27, 2012, 02:57:14 PM »

I have (almost) always decorated my house using paints of a brand which begins with a dee and ends with an eks and over many years have had good results.
Following my latest efforts I find that the emulsion paint which gave relatively poor coverage is cracking and the white gloss has turned yellow where objects have stood in front of it for a couple of months. The gloss also took much longer to cure than it used to.
Decorating is not fun but I pride my self on doing a good job and to be let down by what I perceive to be poor materials is irritating to say the least.
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tigertiger

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2012, 03:39:18 PM »

Have you tried contacting the manufacturer?
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Neil

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2012, 04:13:37 PM »

Gloss white is reknown for it's poor shelf life once opened, and even in little humbrol ennamels the time for white to cure, the older it gets , takes longer and longer........it's no difference with household paints.

neil.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2012, 04:48:15 PM »

I understand that there have been a lot of EU directives to reformulate paints over the last 10 or so years - mainly driven by H+S requirements.

This legislative change is performed by ministerial directive, and is not debated in Parliament. It is therefore not reported in the MSM and not announced to the man in the street. It would be interesting to find out whether paint performance has deteriorated as a result...
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ardarossan

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2012, 04:51:29 PM »

Sorry to her about your misfortune with the decorating, but could you answer a few questions to get a better insight please?

Were the products regular retail variety or the trade versions, and bought by yourself from new?
Was the gloss, oil-based or Acrylic?
How old were they?
Where has they been stored?
Were all surfaces prepared as manufacturers instructions, clean, dust free and washed down if in a smoky environment ?
Which rooms were the products used in, and were they used on anything other than stable walls, ceilings & woodwork, e.g, Radiators, Pipework?

Andy
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2012, 05:05:35 PM »

DG is correct. Modern paint formulations are frequently less effective than their predecessors due to the removal of volatile solvents and ingredients which were previously used to maintain performance. Even cars are now sprayed with water based paints and the finish is much softer than the old cellulose as the increasing number of complaints about paint chips demonstrate.

We do of course have our own resident paint expert on Mayhem and no doubt he will be able to explain further.  :-)

Colin
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ardarossan

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2012, 05:20:13 PM »

The formulation of differing types of paints may be a contributing factor to disappointing results reported above. However, the correct storage, preparation and usage of the products (regardless of type/formulation) should be in accordance with manufacturers recomendations, and should be determined prior to the implication that the product must be at fault.

Personally, I believe that for two similarly-branded, but apparently different types of paint to fail at the same time is somewhat unusual, and other factors may well be in play.

Andy
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Bryan Young

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2012, 05:35:17 PM »

One "Domestic" paint that does the job and is superb for modelling purposes is Halfords "Appliance" paint. I imagine that it's primarily intended for re-painting 'Fridges / Washing Machines and so on. Never tried it on anything other than GRP and Plasticard (both of which it seems to love). Tough as old boots and never seems to fade or discolour. I've only ever used the "white" version so I can't answer for the Avocado (!). BY.
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cos918

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2012, 06:14:19 PM »

morden paint is crap.
I have a new company car chiped all ready due to the water based paint they use. Water based gloss they sell down DIY shops is only fit for the bin. This is thanks to a EU directive that tryed to do good. but has usual  made the situation worse as more paint is req as new paint dosent last. Typical EU all ways brain dead in the detials. I get my paint from the trade counter a brewers and they say there is only a few years left before any oil based paint for normal used IE note Marine etc will no longer be avaible. Sorry to say but the good stuff is getting harder to get across the board.

john
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2012, 06:37:55 PM »

I have just had part of the outside of my house painted and I used International Toplac yacht enamel, costs more but should last a heck of a lot longer than the dishwater you get in DIY stores.

Colin
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ardarossan

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 07:49:44 PM »

I have just had part of the outside of my house painted and I used International Toplac yacht enamel, costs more but should last a heck of a lot longer than the dishwater you get in DIY stores.

Colin

Agreed, but only as long as the initial preparation was carried out to a suitable standard. It is also apparent that you appreciated & accepted the difference between a premium product and an economy version when you made your selection.

Unfortunately, this awareness is not shared by everybody, with many being guided to the DIY-sheds with inspiration drawn from the abundance of 'lifestyle' shows appearing on our TV screens over the last decade or so. These shows have under-mined many aspects of the reputable building trade and frequently given the impression that (in the case of Painting/Decorating), it is possible to achieve professional results between 'elevenses' and lunch, with nothing more than a 20 litre bargain-bucket of brilliant white slop, and a 250ml of quick-drying one-coat gloss.

In fairness to the DIY-sheds products, a reasonable finish can be achieved with much of it, but the downside is that in order to preserve that finish, it must be maintained at more frequent intervals - You pays your money and makes your choice.

What is undeniable though for any paintwork (boats, cars, houses etc), is that if the initial preparation isn't up to scratch, sooner or later it will become apparent in the finish.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 08:58:06 PM »

Quote
What is undeniable though for any paintwork (boats, cars, houses etc), is that if the initial preparation isn't up to scratch, sooner or later it will become apparent in the finish.

Or in other words, if it doesn't stick it will fall off....

Colin
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Norseman

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2012, 11:01:40 PM »

For interior (dry area) use I think the normal modern paints are great - I've done all the usual surfaces and no problems at all.
Clean well first, generous number of coats applied by brush - tried rollers and didn't like them.
Also got a bathroom and kitchen paint that cures great if you just follow the instructions....... The tin's not the wife's  :D

Dave
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mrsgoggins

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2012, 08:28:34 AM »

To answer a few points;
 I consider preparation to be all important and that is where most on my effort goes.
The paints were all retail, I've never been impressed with "trade" or "economy" brands, and the gloss was brand new oil based.
The most troublesome (white) emulsion had been used a couple of times but looking back it always gave poor coverage and in all applications has cracked. It was a "25% extra free" offer which may be a clue although it was branded.
I suspect formulation changes are at the root of it, the drivers being legislation, cost cutting or overseas manufacture.
Perhaps I am just being grumpy. I remember the days when the advert said; "With H_____s on the handle the bristles won't come out". Sadly it now says China on the handle and the bristles do come out but perhaps they always did.
Grump over for the moment - workshop to rearrange for next model
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2012, 08:32:07 AM »

you only have to see the difference between new Humbrol paints and those of a few years ago to see what differences there are in paint quality
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chuffy

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2012, 08:37:01 AM »

Another alleged benefit of some modern paints, they "let the wood breath" i.e., moisture and damp can get out but water can't get in. How do you know if you've got the paint on the right way up?

Should I leave now??

Paul.
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bikerdude999

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2012, 08:42:08 AM »

Should I leave now??

Paul.

Yes!  O0 ;D


And keep taking the tablets...... On second thoughts, maybe best to stop?!   :o %)
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chuffy

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2012, 08:48:18 AM »

And this old boy wants help with his latest project later on this morning, HUH!! 

We are now off topic I shall no longer rise to the bait.
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2012, 08:49:33 AM »

Another alleged benefit of some modern paints, they "let the wood breath" i.e., moisture and damp can get out but water can't get in. How do you know if you've got the paint on the right way up?

Paul.

Its all down to the brush technique  ;D
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ardarossan

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Re: Domestic Paints
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2012, 01:27:26 PM »

Its all down to the brush technique  ;D

...and make sure you are not using right-handed paint with a left-handed brush

To answer a few points;
The paints were all retail, I've never been impressed with "trade" or "economy" brands, and the gloss was brand new oil based.

By 'Trade' I meant the decorating-trade version & quality from the trade counter, i.e. The total opposite of 'economy'. From what you have said regarding prep' and similar results of applications in all areas used, I would be inclined to take a sample of the flaking paint and then contact the manufacturer. Details and batch number should be on the tin.
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