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Author Topic: CAD are you interested....  (Read 47450 times)

grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #125 on: October 29, 2012, 10:13:51 pm »

right a lesson in CAD.
when you create a drawing you create it in 'model' space at scale 1:1 ie full size, this is the default layout tab, generally there is a second tab called 'layout 1' which can be renamed to anything else too, here you create your paper or sheet, also drawn at 1:1, but the size of the finished sheet of paper you want to end up with.
to get your drawing onto your paper (in autocad) you set up a viewport in the sheet of paper with your model space drawing scaled to the required scale to fit the sheet of paper. this means when you print from the layout tab you print at 1 to 1 with your nice border and titleblock, and your viewport through to the model space showing your scaled drawing.
in microstation you dont have viewports, instead you use the model space of your file as a reference file, scaled into your layout tab (paper space) to achieve the same effect.
I like the terms model space and paper space because they describe the job they do, one contains your sheet of paper (with title blocks etc) the other your model (full size design)
now to change between the two you need to find a box that will normally have the word model in it (or the name of the layout) - in autocad these will show as seperate tabs along the bottom of the page. not sure how they appear in turbocad.
(victorian, when you converted your file and looked at it using the free viewer, I am betting you were actually looking at the other tab to the one your drawing was on).
I will try and give more CAD tips as and when I spot any issues I see people having with CAD, the confusion with model space and paper space is a very common one for people with limited CAD knowledge (especially most engineers with a little CAD knowledge (no offence meant at all- just an observation over 30 years using CAD)).
Grendel
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #126 on: October 29, 2012, 10:28:55 pm »

ok heres what the autocad layout tabs and microstation layout selection look like.
Grendel
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Kim

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #127 on: October 30, 2012, 01:22:00 am »

These are all very good points, thanks. I don't think there is anything like a picture embedded in the drawing because I copied the individual objects from other drawings where they were created.
 
The bad news is that Turbocad blows up when trying to create a .pdf of it. It creates a 32Mb tmp file and then crashes. It may be that this project is just too complex for it.
 
I've used Turbocad since V2 and have never had a project that has not run into some crippling bug or other. Trouble is, switching to Autocad (or something else) now involves a huge investment of time and money...

Hi, if you had joined lines  / weld .. whatever the function name in your application it would have made the file easier to manage I suspect the crash / hang was a computer memory &/or graphics card issue.
 
With regard to drawing for photo etch a cheap (er) & stable programe is Corel Draw Version 10 or above is good for .AI, .CDR  which are fairly standard & stable formats.
 
Corel will also save as .dxf & .Dwg but best to back save V12>14
It's also a lot easier to get to grips with.
 
 
With regards to preping a drawing for Photo etch Make sure all layers match perfectly.
 
Hope this helps anyone thinking of using cad for photo etch.
 
Regards,
Kim
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victorian

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #128 on: October 30, 2012, 09:47:52 am »

Hi Guys
 
Firstly, can I say a sincere "Thank you" to all of you who have contributed to this. It's a fantastic pool of knowledge that you have there!
 
I'm reading all the replies and files that have been sent to me overnight.
 
I'll report back. Thanks again, David
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victorian

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #129 on: October 30, 2012, 10:28:41 am »

Some further observations:
 
Grendel is absolutely right: I had a 'layout1' tab with a completely different drawing in it. Always wondered what those tabs were for! I deleted all the content in 'Layout1' and re-saved it. It reduced the file size (.tcw) from 8Mb to 6Mb.
 
Unfortunately, Turbocad can't now save the drawing as .dxf or .dwg. It gives an 'unknown error'! Fortunately I do have a .dxf file mailed to me by Grendel.
 
Regarding the actual quality of the drawing and Kim's comments, I'm sure this is right and I'm looking at it now. The concept of layers seems to be a novelty to Turbocad and to copy shapes between layers I have to use a 3rd party tool that I downloaded. Doubtless this is my ignorance but I couldn't find any equivalent function in Turbocad itself, while even the layers themselves are hidden away in the 'Options' menu.
 
For some reason my etcher requires tabs to be in a seperate layer for reasons that elude me and also requires a seperate outline layer as well as the coloured fill layers. All this is mystifying to me as i cant really see why a single sheet with all the components in different colours wouldn't do!
 
For anyone who is interested, these are mostly parts for a 1/96th Victorian cruiser, with occasional loco parts added in.
 
 
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Kim

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #130 on: October 30, 2012, 10:39:07 am »

Some further observations:
For some reason my etcher requires tabs to be in a seperate layer for reasons that elude me and also requires a seperate outline layer as well as the coloured fill layers. All this is mystifying to me as i cant really see why a single sheet with all the components in different colours wouldn't do!
 
For anyone who is interested, these are mostly parts for a 1/96th Victorian cruiser, with occasional loco parts added in.

Hi, one of the reasons is it makes error correction & tool production easier esp on a complex drawing, sure there are simpiler ways to darw but multi layer & colour assignment makes it easier to understand saving time when the drawing goes for tool production.
Regards
Kim
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #131 on: October 30, 2012, 11:22:13 am »

glad to be of assistane jusce, dont forget CAD is my speciality, I'll try and answer any quetions that I can.
I have just downloaded an evaluation copy of Turbocad on 1 months free trial so I can understand its complexities and help further - strangely it wont let me open the file supplied something about a missing filter, it does seem less robust then the normal CAD packages I use,
but I'll give it a go.
Grendel
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victorian

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #132 on: October 30, 2012, 12:57:24 pm »

The etcher have just said that they can use it, it so I'll report back on what transpires!
 
In the meantime I can see some of the points that Kim is alluding to. Much of this results from the complexity of copying outlines between layers and failing to notice certain elements that have been missed in the copy or copied more than once. I think I can improve on this by joining shapes up to be single polylines before copying them, but I'm not sure that helps with the conversion to .dxf.
 
Grendel, I'll send you an earlier Turbocad file to try. Maybe it doesn't like converting from v.16 to v.18?
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #133 on: October 30, 2012, 12:58:36 pm »

no I sorted it, I got the earlier version 16 and needed to run some patches.
Grendel
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #134 on: October 30, 2012, 01:01:20 pm »

for connecting outlines either use an extend to element tool, or insert sections of line between the ends.
Grendel
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victorian

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #135 on: October 30, 2012, 02:38:26 pm »

It seems that some of the problems reported by Kim were caused by the process of exporting to .dxf and are written into the Turbocad files as well. They are not present in the original Turbocad file.
 
For instance, previously intact object outlines are now broken and as a result certain previously valid fill is now missing. It seems likely this happened during the revert to R14 step. Doubtless this is down to the poor underlying quality of my design or something, but aaargh!!
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #136 on: October 30, 2012, 03:13:39 pm »

welcome to the wonderful world of CAD, I think aaargh says it all (and might explain why I have little hair left.
Grendel
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Kim

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #137 on: October 30, 2012, 03:22:55 pm »

Hi, I don't think i said use R14.
My understanding is it was about the time of r14 that dxf became funny about file sharing hence my recomendation to previous versions.
 
But hey what do i know i aint got 30 years experience lol
 
I had a look at the previous version and it too seems to be missing but heres where layers come in hand its a quick fix!
 
Regards,
Kim
 
 
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #138 on: October 30, 2012, 03:50:48 pm »

Yes I  have 30 years experience with CAD, but I still wont claim to know  it all, in fact the more you learn, the more you know there is a lot more to learn. most of my experience is with the plain versions of CAD, the so called vanilla versions, with just a little autocad map thrown in.
Grendel
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victorian

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #139 on: November 05, 2012, 04:31:59 pm »

Well I have the etch back from those terriffic people at PPD and it looks OK. Obviously it's a very fussy and delicate affair, but as far as I can see the CAD problems have not come through in the final result. This was made directly from my original .dwg format export from Turbocad which PPD chose to use because it was smaller than the 100Mb .dxf file!
 
These are mostly components for a 1/96th scale late Victorian cruiser and I'll publish some pics of the components made up. Thanks again for all the help.
 
 
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #140 on: November 05, 2012, 04:56:41 pm »

I'm glad it all came out fine in the end, after all thats the result we are aiming for.
Grendel
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #141 on: November 05, 2012, 07:44:28 pm »

well done that man!  :}


I intend to start doing etching as part of my future projects.


Be nice to know how its done and what I need to know!


Dan
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Kim

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #142 on: November 08, 2012, 10:47:27 pm »


 
These are mostly components for a 1/96th scale late Victorian cruiser and I'll publish some pics of the components made up. Thanks again for all the help.
I'm glad all worked out in the end,
Interesting you have a scale at the bottom of the etch. Was the drawing prepared for the 'old fasioned way' of brass prep?
Regards,
Kim
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #143 on: November 12, 2012, 04:42:13 pm »

Ive just imported the 3d mesh that freeship exports, into my 3d model to check the plank lineup.


Its not quite there. however this is the key issue with freeship not allowing a clinker hull. Im still going to have my original planks cut and will offer them up to the hull and see where I go from there.


Ive given up with the turbocad plank lofting as I simply cant do it and I think the program is limited.


Here's some pics of the imported mesh.


















Dan
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vnkiwi

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #144 on: November 12, 2012, 06:41:47 pm »

Hi Dan,
Your attempting to do what I've been trying to do for a while now, so following with interest.
Keep up the good work. As soon as my new computer starts behaving itself will proceed, hopefully forwards once again
cheers
vnkiwi
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If it ain't broke. Don't fix it !

F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #145 on: November 12, 2012, 08:00:31 pm »

Ha,


I actually don't know what im doing, its purely trial and error.  {:-{


What is it your trying to do on CAD?


Dan
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vnkiwi

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #146 on: November 12, 2012, 09:02:57 pm »

Hi Dan,
Actually very similar to yourself, but carvel hulls, not clinker. (Although I have a clinker on my to do list).
I use 'Freeship' and generate the hull, then I've been trying to export this into a 3D program, (still trying to find one I can afford, and use simply.
Unfortunately have been using 2D autocad, (since v2.8, and just don't want to go 3D with it), and learning a different Package with different methodology, has proven difficult, on an intermittent part time basis.
I have a friend with CNC machinery, and will be getting him to cut the plugs from which moulds will be taken for some.
For the older historic wooden boats, I am trying to develop the planks, laser cutting same and plank on frame construction, to duplicate original construction.
Sketchup, not quite there for this, Autocad in 3D, have always found horrendous to use (Autocad was written & developed by programmers, and they think different to Engineering blokes). Before Autocad I used a professional cad system developed by engineers and draughtsmen, which was very intuitive to use, but is no longer available, as wasn't written to be run on PC's. Was just starting to use 123D, when my computer died, and Turbocad wasn't up to it. ProE and Solidworks, way beyond my financial resources.
So will watch your efforts and maybe learn where I'm going wrong.
cheers
vnkiwi
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #147 on: November 21, 2012, 02:12:44 pm »

Was laid in bed this morning with CAD going round in my little brain. I was think how can I solve the issues I have been having and then I thought -


I currently have the 3D model as it would be in real life, which is fine, however its causing a lot of issues in respect of lofting and forming the planks. I then decided to remove the thickness element of the 6 frames and then loft along each notch, thus creating what you can see below.


The planks, although they would need to be widened by 2mm to create the clinker overlap, seem to be relatively spot on and it is essentially a coble!


I have just got hold of a copy of Rhino and was playing about with unrolling objects and will at some point import the lofted planks into it and try to flatten them so that they can be waterjetted so I can be confident they fit the model.





















Dan
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #148 on: November 21, 2012, 04:39:24 pm »

once you have created your plank can you extrude it to give it thickness? (or make a copy 2mm away - create a 2mm line perpendicular to the plank then use that to copy from one end to the other).
Grendel
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #149 on: November 21, 2012, 05:16:53 pm »

Yes that can be done with ease. My aim here was to merely form a shape for the plank so that i know its going to fit the jig.


Having a battle with turbocad again at the moment. Im creating, or trying to create something on the stem which the loft can be sent to in order to create the first bit of plank, but its throwing up allsorts of errors and stuff  <*<


i'll get there.


Dan
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