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Author Topic: CAD are you interested....  (Read 47482 times)

F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #150 on: November 21, 2012, 07:02:57 pm »


This is my issue with turbocad. When modifying any 2D object, I work in 2D mode and use snaps.


Yet it manages to do things like this and angle the curve upwards. I have been trying to work out what the hells wrong for the last 4 hours and this is it. It does stupid things. It doesn't tell me what angle this is at as it says rotation = 0, however its something less than 1 degree.


Its ridiculous




Dan
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #151 on: November 21, 2012, 07:20:06 pm »

what precision do you have set up under options - drawing setup - angle.
if it is set to 0 you will only see the nearest degree.
also with autocad 0 deg is vertical upwards, in microstation 0 deg is horizontal to the right, turbocad is horizontal to the right too.
precision set to 2 will give you 2 decimal places of accuracy.
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #152 on: November 21, 2012, 08:13:50 pm »

precision is 2.


Whilst i have sorted the high/low by doing an assemble by points, turbocad has a really annoying habbit of rotating the piece aswell which has now happened and is 0.0254 mm out.


I might put this into Rhino and try the unroll feature and flatten this thing down. I cannot tell you how frustrated I am and annoyed I am at this program.


I cannot move forward unless this issue is sorted, really really annoying.


Dan
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #153 on: November 21, 2012, 09:14:53 pm »

Well i though i had sorted the issue but seemingly not. The high/low thing is back, how i don't know, except this time i refuse to start again.


I have a big big problem now. It seems you cannot loft a group (which is actually a group of lines) in turbocad.


Now the next issue is how do I join these lines so that they make a line - which is not a group?


Its a curved section and isnt so straight forward to replicate perfectly.


The red bits are planks above and below the naughty one!





Dan
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #154 on: November 21, 2012, 09:22:01 pm »

Ive solved it with a spline  :}
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #155 on: November 21, 2012, 10:00:07 pm »

I was just checking to see if you would be able to use a spline, that will create a smooth curve between your control points or fixed points. that was going to be my next suggestion.
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #156 on: November 21, 2012, 10:09:18 pm »

My next issue is creating a transom, along with notches to accept the planks.


Turbocad can save as a .3dm rhino file, however is there anything i need to do with the lofts in turbocad to ensure they can be unrolled in rhino?


Dan
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #157 on: November 21, 2012, 10:10:54 pm »

I'll have to pass on that as I dont know rhino at all.
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #158 on: November 21, 2012, 10:19:02 pm »

you should be able to create a shape using your reference points, does it curve in both directions? if you can create control curves you should be able to use the copy parallel and create the steps that way off the control curve, round the curve, then you might be able to create it as a surface - there is usually a tool that can create a surface using the 4 edges, is there a turbocad tool to create a polyline from a series of elements (rather than just grouping them)
that way you can create your stepped edge as one polyline.
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #159 on: November 21, 2012, 10:23:46 pm »

its called the join polyline command
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #160 on: December 03, 2012, 05:23:33 pm »

Ok a bit of progress made.


My mistake was lofting the planks in turbocad and then importing them into rhino, even though the drawing was saved as a .3dm rhino file.


I decided to import just the frames and then loft inside of rhino. Aligning tool was then used to make sure the plank sat within the correct constraints (sometimes it would almost look like left was crossing to right from each frame to the next, sort of like a double helix. That was fairly easy to solve.






The plank could then be unrolled to a 2d shape shown below (on the right).





This served as a test and seems to work well. I have just re-drawn the stem using splines, infact 7 separate splines, 1 for each plank. These provide the correct curve which the loft can attach to and ensure the plank will take on the same shape as the stem.


Next issue is a fairly big one. The transom, or lack of one. The transom on the coble is roughly 45 degrees, and the notches must be drawn in order for the loft to attach to. Once that is done, I would say the planks could be trusted to fit the jig in the real world. However from my attempts, drawing on a 45 degree angle doesnt seem easy. I have tried to adjust the workplane but lines seem to be going all over the place aaarrrgggghhhhh!


More soon hopefully  {:-{


Dan
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #161 on: December 03, 2012, 07:25:15 pm »

As a further bit of info on the previous comments, you must be careful to select that you want developable in the lofting options, as then the software refuses to unroll the loft as they are double curved surfaces.


I then decided to do the first plank in rhino, unroll and then re-import this back into turbocad so that I could overlay the original planks from the freeship developed plates, with the newly unrolled plank and below is the result.





Not to bad, however the difference is evident because the original planks were seen as a carvel hull by freeship, of course the new ones are clinker and so there is a little bit more twisting.


I have since sent off for the original planks aswell as the jig to be laser cut. I am pretty confident after seeing the overlap that the freeship planks will actually fit this jig. Only time will tell!


Dan
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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #162 on: December 03, 2012, 10:26:56 pm »

to get the 45 degree transom create a vertical frame either side front and back then you should be able to project the notches you require from the two close in frames.
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #163 on: December 04, 2012, 10:31:49 am »

Well I have to a certain degree.





Its not the actual projection which is the issue, its more the fact of drawing on the 45 degree angle and making the lines 45 degrees also. This is the only think now stopping me in this project. Hopefully I can find a way to do it.


Dan
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Bob K

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #164 on: December 04, 2012, 11:00:34 am »

I am intrigued with this thread, after many years in a 3D design drawing office.  With a full 3D modeller generating planks should not be a problem.

ie:   Create datum planes for each of the transverse bulkheads, and extrude profiled thicknesses from each.  Create a sweep trajectory plane along defined points on the bulkhead planes, then extrude the first plank section along the plane.  Successive sweep sections would use the same plank profile and also be made tangential to the proceeding plank.

Unfortunately a basic Pro/Engineer licence is over 1,600 Pounds, and frankly you need quite a few expensive add on modules to do anything really useful.  eg: If you wanted to flatten the plank out you would need Pro/Sheet Metal.

Heck - they used to let me play with five suites of this, which was huge fun, and they actually paid me as well.
I wish I had access to one now  O0
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #165 on: December 04, 2012, 11:12:32 am »

Hi Bob,


Im using Turbocad Pro and Rhino. Rhino offers that final bit of power to do the planky stuff. I have proven it works.


Only issue now is to create the transom.


I sort of understand what you mean about the sweep thing and will certainly give it a go. The planks must sit in the notches of the frame hence is has been lofted this way.


Will report back.


Dan
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Bob K

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #166 on: December 04, 2012, 11:38:33 am »

Best wishes Dan.  Well done if you have achieved that.  Many 3D systems are not true solid modellers, but come at much more realistic prices.  Almost anything is achievable with time and creativity.  :-))
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #167 on: December 09, 2012, 03:02:07 pm »

Been playing around with Rhino again today, trying to find a way to extend the loft. Basically I want the software to extend the plank into the transom, but keep its trend in regard to twist and angle etc.. I have very skillfully created what I want in pink, on the screen shots below:









Does anybody know of a command/way this can be done easily. If I can extend the lofts over the transom, them the section tool can be used at the correct angle to form the notching that is required for the final piece of this jigsaw.


HELP!


Dan



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grendel

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #168 on: December 09, 2012, 03:33:48 pm »

if you can extend past you can use the trim command in side elevation, or use the extend to line command.
I know in autocad there is a 3d trim command, where you could set up a plane at the transom and then trim back to it (or construct an intersection between 2 3d objects, this intersection then being your transom.
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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #169 on: December 09, 2012, 03:36:53 pm »

if you can create a flat false  transom past where you want the real transom the above should be possible.
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #170 on: December 23, 2012, 06:10:57 pm »

Not sure if any of you are familiar with the enterprise coble plans from my hobby store, however I have a set and was bored this afternoon and decided to try and do a CAD version of the model.


I simply took measurements of the frames to create a table of offsets. I then drew these in CAD and added some notches. I then orientated these correctly and lofted planks. I had a correct stem and transom to work from this time. The stem needs to be added however this gave me a general idea of the shape etc. For the sake of unrolling the planks, I would use Rhino to loft in the first place, however that meant sitting with my big beasty powerful laptop on my knee all afternoon, cooking my testicals. Generally no hiccups at all and gave me better understanding of what order to do things in.


Below is the result. Little bit of work to do but generally spot on.


















And what the plans produce...



























Merry Christmas


Dan
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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #171 on: December 24, 2012, 12:21:41 am »

Hello Ive just come accross this thread and thought id add to the discussion.

Im a CAD Design Engineer using mainly Solidworks but I have also used Catia and Autocad Inventor.

Ive been talking to a couple of machining companies who I work with normally with aluminium and steel who have said they would happily produce me some hull plugs in MDF or Foam for me to produce plugs from. They have large multi axis CNC milling machines so can produce almost anything although thye are limited because of the bed size so would be making my plugs in two parts.

As far a learning CAD it isent really all that hard at all in my oppionion. People often say to me that it must be hard, some of it is hard, when im working on assemblies with 5000+ components and mulitple configerations then its hard to keep track of everything.  However some of the features in solidworks that allow you to make drawings of parts in seconds make life som much easier , it would have taken me days in the past to produce these drawings using paper and pencil and solidowrks does them in seconds.

Any way got off subject a bit their, as far a system specs go its all down to what you want to do. I have used Solidworks and Autocad on computers with Intel Core 2 Due processors and 4 gb of ram which today isnt a big spec at all and they worked fine and for this level of work will be fine. I do have an old computer that I have as a backup that is an old Athlon 64 3400+ and 2 gig of ram and it does work but it isnt great but that machine id about 8 years old now. Personally I use a Dell Prcision Laptop Workstation with 32gb of ram and an i7 extreme processor and 2 solid state hard drives but it cost almost £5K and is over kill for most things although I am wanting to upgrade it for something quicker again. What I find to be the most useful bit of equipment is a good screen , something like a 24" is usually fine, some people manage fine on little 13" laptop screens but I like to be able to see everything clearly.

If I can help at all I will as I am allready trying to do some of what I think is being doen here,

I was playing with this last week in my spare time
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F4TCT

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #172 on: December 24, 2012, 12:07:03 pm »

Thanks for your input.


Ive seen solidworks and it looks excellent. Had a go on inventor a year or two ago and im hopeless. Trying to get my head round Rhino at the moment as some of the features on there such as the tsplines addon I have are truly excellent.


Im slowly learning about CAD and its intricacies although I'll never be excellent at it.


The hardest bit for me is understanding what things can be done and what things cant given the types of objects used and mainly how to do things efficiently.


I think in a way using CAD to design boats and have the parts cnc laser cut, its sort of taking a major part of the hobby away, albeit all the maths and stuff is done in the virtual world. Im more of a technical person like that.


Dan
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Yogibear

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Re: CAD are you interested....
« Reply #173 on: December 24, 2012, 06:21:13 pm »

In a way it does take some of the hobby away , personally I like building boats but I would rather be sailing them and using CAD will hopefully speed up the building process.
 
One area im going to be looking into next is an add on for producing the lay up for either fiber glass or carbon fibre. Their is software out their where you input you cad model and it calculates the positioning and flattens everything out and will nest it for best fit as well.
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