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Author Topic: Building a static 1765 English Frigate  (Read 46682 times)

Capt Podge

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #125 on: October 17, 2013, 08:26:24 PM »

They say "the camera never lies" - and that's another lie ! >:-o
 
Well done Dennis - looking good  :-))
 
Regards,
 
Ray.
 
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Pop top campervan needed

dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #126 on: October 21, 2013, 06:54:52 PM »

Main Top Shrouds begin... this will take a while.  As the model builds in height, sitting and rigging becomes more problematic... I'll be standing before its done.
Dennis
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dave301bounty

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #127 on: October 25, 2013, 07:23:41 PM »

Hi ,I,ve been doing/watching your build ,I am about at the same spot in the build ,was helped by the great Jimmy James ,then I stopped for the obvious .,now coming to terms with ,its got to be started ,so I am sitting ,and the hull is on the floor ,makes it a lot easier ,also ,by the way ,have had a great lighting done to help ,a 4 foot strip light at each side ,helps out and I can see were to put the various ,love your dead eye jig ,yes we all make one to our own satisfaction ,,at times progress is very slow as there are other things which require my attention ,was presented with a shed full of books on period ships ,rigging etc ,very good reading and out of print ,when on sale they were pricey.A piece of bees/wax is a great help too ,plus the thrown away surgons tools ,happen to be lucky there ,got a good contact in the right department  how are you doing for timber ,I,ve had to get the local timber turners to help me ,good honest crowd too ,plus got a hold of a great tube type steamer , it works and helps at lots .All for now ,and best of it to yourself .Dave . ;)
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #128 on: October 25, 2013, 08:09:17 PM »

Tks Dave, good suggestions.  Lighting is so important.  My new mag loop is providing good lighting now.  Most of my lumber is coming from the kit and I do buy some strip sticks from the local hobby shop.  Its fortunate that I have a good inventory of linen line plus what the kit provides (which is never enough or the right size).  I always wax my line before install, plus sizing/whipping.  I have various deadeye jigs, but seem to come back to the same old standby.  And, yes, rigging tools are a must.  I have built my own and have some old dentist tools as well, but they make my teeth hurt! ;)   Got all the shrouds in and am now working on the backstays.


Dennis
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dave301bounty

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #129 on: October 25, 2013, 08:41:44 PM »

Dennis ,I got some very old Irish linen ,from of all places ,a Church ,it was surplus to wants and being a good customer ,great but needs a wash a dozen times to flex out ,has a good colour though.
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #130 on: October 25, 2013, 09:48:39 PM »

Dave, you are very fortunate indeed.  Good linen is hard to find now.  I lucked out one year some time ago, a gift shop in Port Townsend specialized in imports from the UK.  One such item was old linen thread used by the British military during the war to repair their uniforms.  I bought all the spools she had in stock immediately.. about 3 different sizes.  Will last beyond my lifespan.  I also have a ropewalk and can turn my own sizes if need be.


Dennis
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #131 on: October 26, 2013, 07:46:56 PM »

Folks, having some problems posting pics to the forum, so will try again and then post text separate.
Dennis
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #132 on: October 26, 2013, 07:51:28 PM »

Goodday folks,  all upper shrouds and backstays for the upper main are in.  I'm now working on the inner forestay of the upper main mast.  I thought I would share with you what the plans show for detail on that inner forestay installation.  They show using a a deadeye to the secure the stay to the foremast going through an eye and then being connected via a loop to the foremast.  I cannot dispute the accuracy of this practice or support it, but have decided to go with it as it looks very "yar".  I have named it a "Holly Street Pileup" for no better reason than that.  I welcome any comments, having any of you seen this rigging practice used?
Dennis
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Footski

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #133 on: October 27, 2013, 07:26:12 AM »

Dennis,
I have checked my HMS Victory and the fitting is very similar on her. Of course I cannot recall how it works on the real vessel.
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #134 on: October 27, 2013, 03:52:51 PM »

Thank you sir.  It probably is.  I have learned to trust these plans in the kit.  Reported to be one of the best.  Out of curiosity, I'll do some more digging in my reference library and on-line.  I just find it a bit odd why they would do it that way.  I suppose it gives great purchase, but still, the weak link is the "eye" either way you purchase her.  The outter stay runs through a block at the head and down to the deck via a proper block and tackle.  I like it though and will rig it that way.  Pics later.
How's your Victory comin?
Dennis
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Footski

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #135 on: October 27, 2013, 05:59:16 PM »

Blimey Dennis, I finished my Victory in 1989 after 3 years of loving labour......She is now permanently cased.
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #136 on: October 27, 2013, 09:45:57 PM »

Oops, sri mate, couldn't remember and you probably told me that some time ago.  Could you post a couple of pics of the area in question on your Vic and also, I would like to see how you mounted your model.  I have some different ideas.. always lookin for what others have done.  I'll be placing this baby in a case as well... it will be huge.


tks,  Dennis
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #137 on: October 28, 2013, 10:26:19 PM »

Inner forestay for main in.
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #138 on: October 28, 2013, 10:27:08 PM »

Inner forestay for main in per plan.
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #139 on: October 28, 2013, 10:27:45 PM »

Inner forestay in.
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #140 on: October 28, 2013, 10:29:24 PM »

Ok folks... a little problematic getting photos to post.  But got them into the cloud and across the pond at last! Rigged per plan was a challenge, but it does work.  Onward.  O0
Dennis
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Bob K

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #141 on: October 28, 2013, 10:57:59 PM »

Lovely detail work Dennis.  I especially appreciate well made ratlines, have attempted some myself.
I doff my cap sir  :-))
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Footski

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #142 on: October 29, 2013, 07:30:51 AM »

Dennis, sorry to be pedantic, but what you are showing is known as a Preventer stay. The Foremast stay runs from the foremast to the bowsprit.


I do not have a shot of that detail, although I could take one if really required. Trying to post a shot of my "Victory at Portsmouth". She is now permanently cased and was put into a kind of diorama which is a facsimile of her berth at the docks.
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #143 on: October 29, 2013, 03:41:10 PM »

I stand corrected sir.... preventer it is.  I do try to be careful with my terminology, but lose it from time to time!  Now to add interest, I was viewing a French Frigate model that I like to use as reference and the rigging for those stays were exactly reversed.  Then I start to think which form of rigging provides the best purchase and would the main require more than the preventer?  Roving through a deadeye to me would provide more purchase as opposed to running through a single block to a triple sheave down at the deck?


Love your Vic.  What a cool way to support her. Wish I could see her in person!


Best,


Dennis
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Footski

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #144 on: October 29, 2013, 03:57:02 PM »

The Stays, ie main stay and fore stay were the heavy supports for the masts and very often were doubled. The Preventer stay was not as heavy as it had to be adjustable.


Any time you want to fly into Malaga let me know and I will bring you to see her!
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #145 on: October 29, 2013, 04:27:47 PM »

Now that's interesting.  If the Preventer had to be adjustable, I would think using the block purchase compared to deadeye would have provided more adjustment advantage.  That being said.... the French may have had it right or did the designer of my plans have it wrong?  This is why a good reference library is a must and even that is not  a 100%.  Then again, its just a bunch of sticks and strings anyhow and at this scale, the average observer is not going to see it or even care.   But.... I will know its there...maddening!


Thank you for the kind offer to pop over for a visit.. wish I could.  In my retirement, I'll be lucky to visit Bow, 30 miles south!


Take care sir,


Dennis
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #146 on: October 29, 2013, 05:19:15 PM »

Preventer Stay
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #147 on: October 29, 2013, 05:25:46 PM »

James Lee's The Masting and Rigging of the English Ships of War, is reported to be the authority of rigging practice on English Ships of War.  Referencing proper Preventer Stay rigging practice between 1700 and 1800 shows a couple of methods which come close to what my plans are saying to do.. again, not 100%, but close enough.  Should have gone to my library in the first place?  Reminds me of the time I did not call the power company before I dug a post hole and hit and severed my main power coming into the house.. it was not pretty.  "Always call before you dig" is the motto.  They fined me $400.
Dennis
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Footski

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #148 on: October 29, 2013, 09:11:05 PM »

The bottom left illustration looks to be an accurate reflection of your Preventer stay and the dates seem to be accurate. I will check another source........Underhills book on rigs and rigging, which is an excellent book does not show the Preventer stays, but as they did NOT form part of the standing rigging they would not have been tarred, but left a natural colour so they could be adjusted easier.
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dlancast

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Re: Building a static 1765 English Frigate
« Reply #149 on: October 30, 2013, 12:50:36 AM »

Yes sir, in part, as I understand it, all standing rigging was tarred, hence was dark in color.. black works for a model.  Standing rigging can be movable or tensioned and as such in actual practice, rigging involved in the charter of movement would be untarred and more of a hemp color.  This indeed would have included the lanyards of the deadeye.  Now, I have observed many models and color of line is all over the map.  I have chosen to make my lanyards on my deadeyes black...that may not be correct.  For the Preventer, I will leave the line that runs through the blocks secured to the deck a natural color of hemp.  But the Preventer will be black to the running block..  Underhill's book is excellent.  Tks mate.
Dennis
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