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Author Topic: Naval Dockyards.  (Read 1981 times)

Bryan Young

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Naval Dockyards.
« on: May 11, 2007, 06:40:37 PM »

A bit unsure how to approach this subject, but is it wise to deliver strategic assets like Naval Dockyards into private hands?
Are the new owners USA, Iranian, Emirates...or even (with money) Russian.
In the not too distant past we had Rosyth, Chatham, Portsmouth and Plymouth.
In the USA the Dockyards are run by the navy for the navy. In this country the actual running of the "yard" was (is) controlled by a civil servant (a senior Supply and Transport Officer) whose brief was to administer the dockyard, and the ships who used "his" facilities were more of an encumberance than a "reason for his being there".
Chatham has gone. Now an amusement park,....except perhaps for the "rope walk".
Rosyth, Faslane and other depots may well be "owned" privately....but with what allegiance?
I shudder to think of possible consequences. Thank goodness I am getting old and do not have to deal with the ramifications of this political stupidity.
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Shipmate60

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Re: Naval Dockyards.
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2007, 07:03:19 PM »

You are a bit late for that Bryan.

Portsmouth is FSL (Vospers)
Devonport is DML Rosyth is Babcock
Faslane is Babcock

They have been in "Private" hands for some considerable years now.
Even in Portsmouth the old Fleet Maintenance Jetty which was RN operated has well gone.

The Dockyard tugs are operated by Serco who are bidding for another contract where they will own all the vessels.
And it still goes on.

Bob
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Bryan Young

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Re: Naval Dockyards.
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2007, 09:58:45 PM »

I know I am late....but at least I was aware of it. Even back in 1991 our re-fit (D'port) was by DML, whose attitude was dubious to say the least. My whole point is that the armed services are themselves best able to look after their own needs without pointless intrusion from the politically motivated. I only have experience of Naval Dockyards...but I assume the same applies to Army and RAF establishments. All very sad, really.
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BarryM

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Re: Naval Dockyards.
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2007, 08:48:09 AM »

Bryan,

On the other hand have you ever known a Military organisation to bring in any project on time or in budget?

Regards

Barry M
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dougal99

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Re: Naval Dockyards.
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2007, 06:15:30 PM »

Bryan,

On the other hand have you ever known a Military organisation to bring in any project on time or in budget?

Regards

Barry M

Yes!!!

It's only since this government has had a fixation with consultants and privatising (oops sorry - outsourcing) that the wheels have fallen off.  By the way the vast majority of contracting is done by civil servants, not the military (apparently we have unrealistic expectations, like holding contractors to delivery and cost promises).

Going to have a lie down now and let my blood go off the boil.

Doug 

Recently retired after 37 years service and don't miss it a bit.
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Shipmate60

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Re: Naval Dockyards.
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2007, 06:36:54 PM »

dougal99,
Outsourcing isn't done by civil servants.
We are being privatised this year as have thousands of others, that is the main problem.
The ethos of public service has well and truly gone now, it is all about dividends for shareholders.
So you end up with a more expensive degraded service.
As our contractor (who is a Major Mod Contractor) has stated "we will have to educate our customers for what we are prepared to supply".
In this case the customer is the RN.

Bob
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PSSHIPS

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Re: Naval Dockyards.
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2007, 07:33:25 PM »

So some upstart shiny ass with no clue about how the navy operates is going to tell the navy they have got to change their ways after, how many years?
 The wheels have come off, kill the shiny asses, we might get somewhere, eh BOB?
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dougal99

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Re: Naval Dockyards.
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2007, 07:35:16 PM »

dougal99,
Outsourcing isn't done by civil servants.

Bob

Bob

I agree the policy is a government decision but the contracts are written and in the main negotiated by civil servants. That doesn't stop many civil servants losing their jobs or being TUPE'd though. However, I was referring to cost and time overruns on major projects (been there, seen it got etc) the MOD contracts branch is all civilian manned (in my experience).

Cheers

Doug
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Shipmate60

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Re: Naval Dockyards.
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2007, 11:45:02 PM »

Paul,
Not quite in that way.
But we have seen Ships returning from long deployments told to anchor in Spithead until the next "working day" as the contractor wont pay overtime rates.
Even though we don't get overtime rates and there are duty tugs in Pompey.

Doug,
Yes the contracts negotiated by Civil Servants, but overseen by Flag Ranks.
Initially  Commodore and confirmed by Full Admiral.
So don't go blaming just Civil Servants.
And just for the record I am a Civil Service Trade Union Official heavily involved with the negotiations, but not getting support from RN, or right now anyone else.

Bob
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dougal99

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Re: Naval Dockyards.
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2007, 05:48:28 PM »

Bob

Let's just agree that the whole concept is based on a fallacy that the same level of service provided internally can be obtained cheaper from industry.

Doug
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Shipmate60

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Re: Naval Dockyards.
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2007, 06:42:45 PM »

Its the old adage, you get what you pay for.
The driving force now is for "Flat-line Accounting" not service level.

Bob
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chromedome

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Re: Naval Dockyards.
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2007, 07:31:01 PM »

wheres your dog gone Bob?


   chromedome
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