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Author Topic: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.  (Read 2565 times)

Neil

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POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« on: November 17, 2012, 09:01:04 AM »

How many of you out there DIDN'T VOTE.???
Shame on you!!
IF YOU DON'T VOTE..................YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY MOAN ABOUT THE OUTCOME.

Just remember the lads and lasses of our armed forces who have made the ultimate sacrifice over the years, so that we free men and women can have a democratic right to vote for our future..............and then tell me you ain't going to vote...............

I might not have known who the HECK I was voting for.........but I did vote, and can moan later when they do a crap job!!!

Neil.
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pettyofficernick

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2012, 09:13:54 AM »

The whole exercise was an obscene waste of 100,000,000 quid, how much real use could they have put that to? How many Bobbies would all that money put on the streets? I bet someone made a few bob out of it all. More Tory nonsense to make it look like they are doing something worthwhile...... <*< <*< <*<
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Colin Bishop

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2012, 09:40:06 AM »

Quote
How many of you out there DIDN'T VOTE.???
Shame on you!

I think you have rather missed the point Neil. A great number of people didn't vote because they thought it was a bad idea. One of the Tory candidates was reported to be just 22 years old and the party was quite happy to endorse him. I looked at all the personal statements for the candidates in my area and they were all totally unrealistic given the cuts being made in the policing budget. In my view none of them were competent to do the job and that is what I wrote on my ballot paper.
 
The turnout was low at around 15% but that figure includes a lot of people who 'spoiled' their vote like I did so the real number of those actually voting was even lower. The police may well be in need of reform but putting a bunch of amateurs, political time servers or people with a personal agenda in charge of them is unlikely the best way to do it. And people are very uneasy indeed about the political parties becoming directly involved in policing which they feel should be strictly non political.
 
 Plus, if you hadn't a clue who you were voting for, their track record and what they stood for then surely your own vote was pretty meaningless.
 
The whole thing is an utter shambles.
 
Colin
 
Colin
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pettyofficernick

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2012, 09:44:20 AM »

Colin, completely agree, I was going to run my self until I found out that you didn't get a Bat signal or a Bat phone with the job.....
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Shipmate60

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2012, 09:48:34 AM »

Neil,
I consider your vote the ultimate waste.
No research, no idea who you are voting for, that is not democracy that is just a waste.

I did not vote, would not vote as an abstention is just as valid (and in this case a better outcome) as a wasted vote.
I do not like the idea of politicising the Police any more than they already have been.
With such a low turn out any election certainly loses its validity.

This Govt also want to ensure that over 50% of Trade Union members have to vote for industrial action before it is lawful.
This that idea a kick into touch from a govt elected on 22% of the votes cast one of their flagship policies attracting sub 20%.

That is democracy at work not just blindly voting for someone as there is an election.

Bob
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Footski

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2012, 09:52:41 AM »

We now have a lot of totally unqualified people having he ultimate say in policing. A dreadful move.... <*< <*< <*< :police: :police:
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Jerry C

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2012, 10:11:12 AM »

I feel guilt for not voting. The candidate in my area that I would have chosen was an independent, ex policeman, lawyer and recorder. He is generally well respected. I too am wary of political commissioners but accept that I really know little of the post. However I still intended to vote but when faced with the very difficult task of parking the car as near as possible to my poling station followed by the ridiculous final climb to the top of Twt hill I drove on by. No excuse I know so Dobby will iron hand after I post this. I will however see how the new Commisioners do and if they're ok will vote next time. Spoiling a paper I view as a futile exercise. If we had compulsory voting I would then have to spoil my vote but we don't so I won't.
Jerry.

Colin Bishop

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2012, 10:14:00 AM »

Quote
I did not vote, would not vote as an abstention is just as valid (and in this case a better outcome) as a wasted vote.

Not sure I'd agree with that Bob. A spoiled paper does show that you have taken an interest and rejected what is on offer. By not turning up you are just lumped in with people who were apathetic or simply unaware of the election. Lots of people don't read the papers or even look at the news much these days plus you really had to have an internet connection to search out candidate information and even then it was just their own statements and people will say anything to get elected!
 
Last week there was an item in my paper stating that the Chancellor was coming under pressure to defer the imminent 3p per litre rise in fuel duty due to the significant damage it would do to the economic recovery. However, this would leave a 500m hole in the Government's budget and how could it be made up? In the same paper there was another item saying that the annual running costs of the new PCCs would be, yes you've guessed it, 500m.
 
Colin
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Neil

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2012, 10:16:19 AM »


I think you have rather missed the point Neil. A great number of people didn't vote because they thought it was a bad idea. One of the Tory candidates was reported to be just 22 years old and the party was quite happy to endorse him. I looked at all the personal statements for the candidates in my area and they were all totally unrealistic given the cuts being made in the policing budget. In my view none of them were competent to do the job and that is what I wrote on my ballot paper.
 
The turnout was low at around 15% but that figure includes a lot of people who 'spoiled' their vote like I did so the real number of those actually voting was even lower. The police may well be in need of reform but putting a bunch of amateurs, political time servers or people with a personal agenda in charge of them is unlikely the best way to do it. And people are very uneasy indeed about the political parties becoming directly involved in policing which they feel should be strictly non political.
 
 Plus, if you hadn't a clue who you were voting for, their track record and what they stood for then surely your own vote was pretty meaningless.
 
The whole thing is an utter shambles.
 
Colin
 
Colin

Absolutely Not, Colin.......I think you have.....the point is that men women and children have died for our right to have democratic votes in this country........something many people have not got in the world.............
 
it doesn't matter whether this government wasted 5 quid or five hundred million quid.....we have been given the right to vote.........and we should ALL EXCERCISE that right....whether we spoil our vote paper at the ballot box or vote truly it doesn't matter.......spoilt vote s count just as much because they show the government that people don't agree with the vote or what it stands for..........BUT NOT TO VOTE IS AN INSULT TO THOSE THAT HAVE DIED SO THAT WE CAN HAVE THAT DEMOCRATIC VOTE!!!!
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Bob K

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2012, 10:20:07 AM »

OK, so I am one of the 13% in my region who did vote.  I am exercising my democratic right, and in so doing have the right to complain afterwards - unlike the majority who simply could not be bothered.  ( Wait for Flames  {-)  )
 
Yes, I did research each of the candidates far beyond their simple statements on the official web site.  One thing I noted was a general lack of CV appropriate qualifications and general experience in the field. Most appeared to be well meaning individuals, but . . .
 
After the event it was not surprising that those elected were generally from the same political party as the areas MPs.  I guess many just voted for the Party as if it were a General Election.  I voted for one of the two Independents, she came across as the most sincere and enthusiastic.
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grendel

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2012, 10:23:01 AM »

I didnt vote, on the basis that all I recieved was a polling card thruogh the post, absolutely no details of who was standing, or how many candidates there were, even the local news only covered the candidates for sussex - and we live in kent, apparently it turns out information was available online about the candidates, well, that means my parents would never be able to see it, as despite my dad having a computer, he doesnt have internet, and I guess there will be many more voters in the same boat, to my mind an utter shambles in the way it was organised, and if the turnout is anything to go by - a lot of others found it so too.
Grendel
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U-33

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2012, 10:28:42 AM »

I never heard a thing about who was in the running for the position in my area, no information leaflets coming through the door, nothing...apart from the odd small piece on local radio and tv stations.


Nobody knocked on my door trying to sell themselves, nothing official from any of the candidates...nothing.


If they can't be bothered to introduce themselves to me and illustrate their ideas to me, then I certainly can't be bothered to go chasing out information on them....even if I knew who they were.


The whole thing was a total farce in my opinion, and a waste of a huge amount of money that could have been put to much better uses amongst the police forces throughout the country.




Rich
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Colin Bishop

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2012, 10:48:43 AM »

Quote
Most appeared to be well meaning individuals, but . . .

Quite! You didn't feel that they had any real understanding of the realities of the job. Not much point in promising zero tolerance or more bobbies on the beat when the budget you have will barely cover the costs of a single squad car round the town at night.
 
With regard to politicisation it is rather ironic that it was Boris Johnson in his capacity as PCC for London who sacked Ian Blair who was getting a bit too political himself. Just goes to prove that sometimes two wrongs do make a right!
 
Colin
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Circlip

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2012, 10:53:05 AM »

I'll bet that all the "Elected" Labour candidates start whingeing about government cuts to the Police force after now accepting the 35 to 100K per annum job they've just got.
 
  It wouldn't take a lot for the printers to add another box to tick on ALL voting forms - "I've read, considered and reject all the candidates and their policies on the above list"
 
   Not going to happen though is it? Would certainly give the dissenters a voice rather than ticking everything/nothing.
 
  Regards  Ian.
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NFMike

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2012, 11:59:17 AM »

"the point is that men women and children have died for our right to have democratic votes in this country"

No, they died to defend our freedom, which in my book includes the right to vote - or not if I so choose.

It seems every day those little freedoms are being eroded by some form of emotional blackmail to try and make us do this, give to that or vote for the other. I'll make my own choices, thank you.

pugwash

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2012, 12:00:05 PM »

I for the first time since I was eligible to vote I have not done so - I don't agree with the system
and most of the candidates were the usual suspects who I wouldn't trust to run a corner shop
let alone one of the bigger police forces in this country.  I appreciate what you say Neil but why
waste fuel to go to the polling station to spoil my ballot paper.  Hopefully our Chief Constable will
be able to carry on doing her job without too much interference from our new commissioner who
was an MP in Gordons disasterous government.  Police should not be used as a political tool 
as has happened in the past (1984 miners strike ) The police committees had an overview of the force and were
local people with an interest in the area and by and large the system worked.  Why do we need another layer of
bureaucracy  parachuted in from Whitehall.
Geoff
 
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malcolmfrary

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2012, 12:09:34 PM »


Quote
[size=0px]Absolutely Not, Colin.......I think you have.....the point is that men women and children have died for our right to have democratic votes in this country........something many people have not got in the world.............[/size][size=0px] it doesn't matter whether this government wasted 5 quid or five hundred million quid.....we have been given the right to vote.........and we should ALL EXCERCISE that right....whether we spoil our vote paper at the ballot box or vote truly it doesn't matter.......spoilt vote s count just as much because they show the government that people don't agree with the vote or what it stands for..........BUT NOT TO VOTE IS AN INSULT TO THOSE THAT HAVE DIED SO THAT WE CAN HAVE THAT DEMOCRATIC VOTE!!!![/size]
[size=0px]

Sorry, Neil, but in our area (which also happens to be your area) we had a choice of an incompetent party hack whose track record so far has been to single handedly almost bankrupt his council, and three other party political hacks who have so far not manged to get themselves elected to any office.  Personally, I would not want any of these in charge of more than somebody else's tea club.
If there was to be any evidence of the democracy that was fought for, there would have been a referendum to decide whether this step should have been taken in the first place.  Replacing a system that works and provides a level of expertise combined with the checks and balances inherent in a stable board with a party political system that is wide open to any form of corruption that the individual chooses to either initiate or accept, and then approving it, is a direct slap in the face for all those who fought and suffered for democracy.


For all those who think that the entire idea of police commissioners is a truly bad idea, have a look at


http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/41806


If enough people who think along the same lines respond, there could be an actual democratic debate on the subject, rather than a gentle slide into approved despotism.[/size]
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2012, 12:18:10 PM »

May I make an observation from afar. (Fools rush in where angels fear to tread comes to mind).
 
We being descendant from the UK also have the Westminster system, we also have compulsory voting.
 Originally, voting was by choice but the electorate voted for compulsion to vote.
 
If you don't use it you will lose it, also the ratbags usually the radical minority will always vote and before you know it the silent majority have lost all the freedoms that have been fought for. Why, because they said and did nothing.
 
We (Australians) don't like some of the choices available to us also, a lot more voters are voting informal to such an extent the powers that be have taken notice and wondering why the large increase as they are votes lost to all.
 
So you can disagree by voting informal but at least exercise your right to Vote.
 
As I see it, it really is not a right not to vote, which is negative but a positive freedom to do so.
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2012, 12:53:03 PM »

I wanted to vote for this chap

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mikearace

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2012, 02:20:45 PM »

Amazing the number of politicians booted out at the last election for having their snouts in the trough and making dubious expenses claims (3 labour candidates at least and no doubt a few tories) put themselves forward for election and some are now elected as police commissioners!  Nice work if you can get it.  If one trough is not accessible guess this demonstrates their is always another.  Greed, lies, incompetence, scratching each others backs and theft are not the preserve of just a single political party.  Endemic throughout all political parties.  No doubt we can expect to see Mr McShame and Mrs Margaret Moron appearing on a ballot paper near us soon whenever the next commissioner vacancy springs up.  Didnt take the labour baroness and and the tory lord to reappear in the lords after their recent theiving escapades.  All a bunch of crooks regardless of their party. And Im supposed to vote for one of them to demonstrate my democratic right?  No way.
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Norseman

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2012, 03:33:44 PM »

Neil I could totally support compulsory voting if there was an abstain option on the ballot form for those who object to the whole issue. Oz has a good way I think. Spoiling a ballot paper achieves nothing unless you burn it in public and get some media attention. You can write whatever you like on one and no one will ever record your view.

Supporting your local Police is a fine thing but supporting your local Commisioner is not going to help the Police. They will all have personal goals in mind.

Lastly a few people have made comments about fearing political interference with the Police. Sorry but you are living in cloud cuckoo land if you don't realise already the force as a whole is used politically by every colour of government. Some of the things that went on during the miner's strike changed my whole view of the Police and Politics.

Dave
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Footski

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2012, 04:04:40 PM »

This is getting dangerous!!!! :police: :police:
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Colin Bishop

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2012, 04:13:02 PM »

Quote
Some of the things that went on during the miner's strike changed my whole view of the Police and Politics.
But just how relevant is that now, it was 28 years ago? There were a lot of dubious practices in those days which would not be acceptable now. Obviously the police are used to serve political ends, if only by virtue of the fact that Governments make laws in line with their own political beliefs that the police are then obliged to enforce. Same thing applies to the civil service. But these laws are nationally applied and were probably in the election manifestos. It would seem that these new PCCs can to a large extent set their own priorities as they go along  which means that as far as policing is concerned you may get a postcode lottery in the way that resources are applied.
 
If the police need reform then there are other things to consider such as why do we need 41 separate forces, is this the most efficient way of organising the police service?Basically, the whole thing is just a bodge like so many other badly thought out policies of this government which have had to be reversed as they simply didn't work.
 
Colin
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hammer

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2012, 04:17:59 PM »

Remember the Dukes of Hazard, the police commissioner Boss Hogg . Well a Tony Hogg has just won the job for Devon & Cornwall. I will have to paint my car red with a Confederate flag on the roof. Yeee Haa!!!
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bikerdude999

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Re: POLICE AND CRIME COMMISIONERS.
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2012, 05:31:23 PM »

No I didn't vote, and no I'm not ashamed, it's a ridiculous idea so I wasn't going to waste my time going to vote, especially not for someone who hasn't even bothered to drop a leaflet through my explaining why they deserve my vote.


As for people giving their lives, yes, they did and do, I attend remembrance services and I vote in all political elections.
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