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Author Topic: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up  (Read 10060 times)

Dean's Marine

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TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« on: November 17, 2012, 01:48:23 pm »

To moderators, if you feel this is in the wrong thread please feel free to move.
Project  To design and construct a r/c system to fit in to the new 1/200 Trumpeter Bismark kit.
First buy the kit and look in the box, everthing that has been said about the kit is true, and more
 we will update the thread as we progress,even when we get it wrong ?
Regards
 Deans Marine
 
 
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AlanT

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2012, 02:39:11 pm »

This kit is to be a "surprise" Xmas gift!...So looking forward to this thread....
 
Alan
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Dean's Marine

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2012, 05:17:56 pm »

Saturday evening, what a way to get away from work, build a model boat ?
up date, trial fit deck and mark in hull access areas,
Fisrt assembly and trials will be with twin screws, independant motors to test handling, will trial fit 3rd shaft later
Open out the proptube exits with a file
Trial fit the tubes in place
check equal angle on both tubes
Drill our the ruudder tubes
Turn up 2mm bearings and push fit into drilled rudder tubes.
Assemble twin tiller arms and locking wires.
Trial fit in to rudder tubes.
Drill centre of rudders
Fit rudders on to shafts with epoxy
ensure all is central ans square, wait for epoxy to dry.
 
 
 
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Dean's Marine

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 11:36:29 am »

  Today project, how to spend a sunday
Drill out the A frames  2.75 mm
Fit a 2.1mm ID brass bearing in to the frames
Trial fit in to the hull with pattermakers wax
Fit cast brass 25mm  2mm 162 type warship props to the shaft with
lock nut and nylon washers
Fit 2mm shafts in to the hull with wax, and lose fit A frames,
 in to hull to ensure they line up and run smooth
(will add oiling tubes later if run is a success)
Make a motor mount from hardwood and vacform in 1.5mm Hi Impact styrene
Sand to fit in to the hull bottom and line motor up with shafts
Trial fit motor in mount and temp hold in place with
 D /S carpet tape for the test run. was going to use 108s to ease lining
 up problems but have concerns will not have enough tourque for a heavy
 boat with small props
Fit 2mm / 2.3 MM EXL couplings and lubricate with vaseline.
Repeat with opposite side.
Temp fit rudder servo in place with servo tape for the test run.
Make pattern for a battery boxe and vacform x 2 in Hi Impact plastic.
Wire up and fit 2 x 3800 ah Nimh packs
Test in pond, it takes 3.8Kgs lead ballast to bring to bottom of waterline,
this is some very heavy boat.
Fit 4 channel radio with 2 x 10amp ESC and rudder servo, bench test all.
Lightly lubricte the bearings with teflon so none gets on the boat,
Put batterys on charge and wait for the day to warm up and off to the
 lake this afternoon.
 Have coffee with shot of scotch ready for anti freeze purpose only.
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Bob K

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 12:11:37 pm »

Interesting and informative detailed build Ron.  Thank you.  Useful tips too.
 
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2012, 11:28:57 am »

 
Looking good awaiting final result.
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Dean's Marine

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 12:06:26 pm »

 Follow up from the test run
It was a lovely day but so cold, had to break the ice on the water first.
The long prop tubes need some support on the inboard end as they vibrated when under power, so a quick fix was made with some plastic strips.
It is now back to the work bench,  The trials were not a great success, this is a very heavy ship and the props do not deliver the power to drive her at acceptable speed, looks good on the water, but she has no reserves of torque, so in any breeze she would struggle a bit.
 Differential steering was slow, but again in any breeze she would be a hand full, of more concern to me was that she had no “brakes” at all stopping distance we 3-4 boat lengths and this would not be safe.
 The 25mm 1292 type brass props have a pitch of 25.6mm, I feel that the cure will be increase the prop to 30mm, but the problem will be that a prop this size will have a M4 shaft size.
 That will not be acceptable as the 4mm shaft dia will not fit in the A frames or the exits in the hull. I will try making up a stainless steel shaft on 2mm with an adaptor on the prop end to convert to M4.
 I may also try to fit a prop tube with roller bearings at the inboard end as a experiment while I am waiting for the shafts to be produced, and play around with drive only on the centre engine so see how she handles.
 Apart from the power problems she ran very well and looked most impressive on the water. With a third engine fitted this will give a bit more power and the twin rudders will be more effective as the will be in the wash of the centre engine, but this will make the design more complex and expensive with the separate drive to the centre engine and this is not the brief we have from the customer.
 As an aside the “anti freeze” coffee was the best taste ever, it was VERY cold on Sunday, and when you drop the little allen key in the water, you know it will be hard to find when you roll up your sleeve have to start rooting around in the bottom of the pond.
 More to follow when the new parts arrive, and I get some time in the worshop
 Regards
 Deans Marine
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richald

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 04:40:30 pm »

Possible replacement props though not as pretty...

2307.30L 3 Bladed Propeller LH 30mm M2 3 Bladed Propeller

LH 30mm - Pitch 16mm
Plastic M2 Thread 


Cornwall models boats....
http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/graupner_propellers.html

Richard
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Dean's Marine

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2012, 02:53:55 pm »

 We have developed a set of motorising gear for the Trumpeter 1/200 Bismark kit and have run the test and trials on the (very cold and Icy) water, see the U tube link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBdqpMoGc2o
 The sets are in three standards,
Set 1 is for centre motor and single driven screw, this gives acceptable performance on the water and very good steering with the twin rudders and is the most economical set up, and the simplest to install.
 Set 2
 This we consider to be the best overall, Twin screw (outer shafts) with independent control of each motor give excellent acceleration and manoeuvrability for such a big heavy craft, and is most realistic when on the stand with the cast brass warship propellers.
Set 3
This we consider to be the ultimate system, Triple screw with independent control of each motor on the outer shafts give excellent acceleration and manoeuvrability for such a big heavy craft, The centre engine is running alone used on its own for maximum endurance and is kicked in to give boost speed when the outer engines are used, This gives the ultimate in top speed and handling, also most realistic when on the stand with the thee cast brass warship propellers.
MOTORISING SET FOR (triple screw set) R/C CONTROL 1/200 Trumpeter Bismark  )
Kit consist of
3 x KYTE Motors
3 x Capacitors
2 x 2.3mm / 2mm Nycrome std couplings
1 x Minifork  2.3mm / 2mm fork coupling
3 x 2mm / M4 Minitube EXL propshafts
2 x  162-14 warship props
1 x  162-13  warship prop
2 x  2mm Brass tube bearing tubes
2 x 2mm Rudder bearing tubes
2 x 2mm steel rudders shafts
2 x Nylon Tiller arms
3 x Motor Mounts
3 x Z Straps
1 x 300mm .055 piano wire Z bend
1 x C/d build pictures of test model
 the same parts are in each set with numbers adjusted for the set up
  Details and prices on our website in the online shop.
 Regards
 Deans Marine
 
 
 
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TailUK

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2012, 05:02:07 pm »

That's pretty impressive, looks like it sails really well.  What worries me is ships like Bismark have a lot of top hamper. Do you feel there will be enough spare draught for ballast to stop her rolling?
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Dean's Marine

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2012, 06:07:07 pm »

Hi Tailuk
no probelem at all the hull is carrying 4kgs of lead ballast to bring her down to the waterline on the test, the top complete is only 1.7kgs. may have to add wt high up to get her to roll a little or she will be a "wet" boat.
Regards
 Deans Marine
 
 
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AlanT

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2012, 07:39:49 pm »

Very impressive work, and the three options seem very good.
 
I just have to decide which option is the best for me. I love the three motors but I think I'll have to settle for the single or dual motor setup. I just don't have the experience to put together the electronics to make the tri-motor option work.
 
Are you goung to detail the electronics you used in a further chapter of your experiments, or do we have to try and work it out for ourselves.......
 
Best Wishes and thank you for the fine work so far.
 
Alan
 
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Dean's Marine

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2012, 07:57:37 am »

Hi AlanT
 It is all on the c/d included with all the kits, not a written set of instruction at present as we have only just finished testing it all  Now it works we will do a layout for the set up we used, all we have to do ius find a way of  putting it all on a c/d in 12 languages?
 Regards
 Deans Marine
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bismarckman

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2012, 09:33:29 am »

hi ron
it would help if you could post the prices on here rather than send us to the deans site
gary
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Dean's Marine

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2012, 11:04:30 am »

Dear Sir
 Not allowed to advertise prices on forums as it is considered bad manners plus being a bit cheeky ? also there is a lot of information and three sets of the drives,.so it would be a big thread, this would give a excuse to the "hate deans marine club"
 have a link for one of the sets
http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/shop/product_info.php/products_id/2740
Regards
 Deans Marine
 
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bismarckman

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2012, 09:23:29 pm »

hi
thanks ron for the chocolate firegard im not a detective i / we just want to know how much this is for the 3 motor set up message me of board please
gary
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bikerdude999

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2012, 10:17:18 pm »

If you click the link deansmarine provided, it takes you to the shop showing you the price of the twin motor set up.... go to electric motors and the bismarck sets are the top 3... don't really need to be a detective.
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Dean's Marine

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2012, 09:37:21 am »

Dear Sir
 Not allowed to advertise prices on forums as it is considered bad manners plus being a bit cheeky ? also there is a lot of information and three sets of the drives,.so it would be a big thread, this would give a excuse to the "hate deans marine club"
 have a link for one of the sets
http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/shop/product_info.php/products_id/2740
Regards
 Deans Marine

P M sent to you
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colin-stevens

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2012, 07:20:26 am »

are you going to do a full build? wondering how you are going to deal with access.
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Dean's Marine

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2012, 03:16:36 pm »

Dear colin stevenson
 Already planned out, the motors and Radio are moved aft to be under the aft hatch of the s/str, the batteries and ESC s are under the forward hatch. hence the specially made shafts and coupling to make it all fit in the right places.
We will be progressing in 2013 but it is a low priorty build so will take some time, our brief was to make the model r./c able and design and produce the running gear that worked well and to test and trial it out.
Regards
 Deans Marine
 
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NFMike

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2012, 09:39:47 pm »

Just curious about the coupling for the centre motor - different to the others.
Is it just to avoid that motor tangling with the other two? Or is there a technical reason?

Dean's Marine

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2012, 07:55:45 am »

Hi Catbed
 it is to keep the couplings under the open area of in the main deck, it we used a standard one the lockings screws would be under the deck and you would not be able to acces them later for repairs or maintenance, be able to ever remove a propshaft
Regards
 Deans Marine
 
 
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NFMike

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2012, 12:11:40 pm »

it is to keep the couplings under the open area of in the main deck, it we used a standard one the lockings screws would be under the deck and you would not be able to acces them later for repairs or maintenance, be able to ever remove a propshaft
:-))  A man after my own heart.

Harquebus

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2012, 02:43:26 pm »

I was going to take exception at the idea of a twin prop system only (until the addition of the third motor).

I think it is sacrilege to not have all three props powered.  <*< I mean, there's plenty of room isn't there?  ;)

Kind of difficult to keep up with Trumpeter (when one is used to gradual change in the plastic model hobby industry). They are amazingly ambitious and have surpassed (in my mind) the exalted Tamiya in 1/350 vessels where Tamiya ruled for decades and the explosion in 1/200 scale in which there were no real stalwarts (until now) it seems. Just amazing. Cannot wait to see someone's sea trials.
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Pondweed

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Re: TRUMPETER BISMARK R/C set up
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2012, 05:07:38 pm »

If the original twin props didn't have enough bite, couldn't you tweak the angle of the blades before you went for the bigger props and tubes option?

You may need more grunt in the motors though!

p.s what is the clear plastic turret for?
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