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Author Topic: The Newtown Tragedy  (Read 6279 times)

TheLongBuild

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2012, 06:44:04 PM »

TURN OFF THE NEWS.......
 
 Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

  "You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.
...
  It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
  people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.
 
  CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
 
  You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

tobyker

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2012, 07:30:09 PM »

I think that the right to bear arms is enshrined in the Constitution so that fellow americans can band together to rebel, and defend themselves, against oppressive regimes such as that of King George. Given that they now elect their own governments, the Constitution may be a teensy bit out of date.
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dave301bounty

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2012, 07:42:11 PM »

Regarding ,Charlton Heston,s collection ,they are all film extra ,non work ,the man collected them ,men collect most things ,its just unfortunate Charlton is not around to answer that .The media do love these horrible events ,they sell papers whatever ,but hey ,whats news ,this world is going worse ,there is law full killing going on across the world ,Afgan to name one place , glass houses spring to mind ,a friend and dear confidate of mine was found dead three weeks ago ,the causes are not known yet ,no mention in paper ,just a statistic ,the mental case who did these horrible deads will meet his maker ,wo betide .
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giovanni

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2012, 07:45:23 PM »

The  2nd amendment is an amendment . That can be amended again with the American citizens will.
The fact is that America is using prisons as mental institutions. 56% of prisoners are mentally ill.
Ronald Reagen dismantled the mental health care in America, many years ago.
The gun lobby would install a gun shop in a mental institution, if the could get away with it.
The mentally ill shooter could have been put away , if the mother would have had the fortitude to do that.
She could have stored her guns in a gun safe. This should be a minimum requirement to obtain a gun permit, as well as requiring a liability insurance policy for each gun owned. We require this for automobiles, why not guns ?  America could require that all gun sales require background checks and waiting periods. This would have averted the Newton Hook School shootings.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2012, 07:47:18 PM »

Quote
I think that the right to bear arms is enshrined in the Constitution so that fellow americans can band together to rebel, and defend themselves, against oppressive regimes such as that of King George. Given that they now elect their own governments, the Constitution may be a teensy bit out of date. 

Quite right, viewed objectively, Americans do seem to be in denial on the subject and simply refuse to face up to it. The original intentions of the framers of the Constitution have been twisted out of all recognition. As said previously, I'm sure they would be horrified at the current interpretation being placed upon the 'Right to Bear Arms'.
 
I have visited the States on a couple of occasions and it is weird to see the signs in the airports reminding passengers to ensure that any firearms are placed in their checked baggage. It does make you wonder just what sort of society this is. By contrast, when travelling to Canada you feel that you are in a much more civilised society.
 
Colin
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Norseman

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2012, 09:16:21 PM »

The Americans I have been fortunate enough to meet have all been very nice people and altogether civilised. As everywhere there are vociferous groups that drown out the quieter voices of sanity.

Dave

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giovanni

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2012, 09:37:21 PM »


As everywhere there are vociferous groups that drown out the quieter voices of sanity.

Those would be the American gun lobbyists.
They blackmail every political candidate that asks for sane gun control.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2012, 09:40:53 PM »


Having watched a couple of programmes about gun control, it beggars belief that someone 
with an ID, can go into a gun shop, on a whim, a by a gun and enough bullets, to shot up
a whole town...... and no one, NO ONE thinks that strange?!?!???

The news reports are saying guns sales are going through the roof..... which I do understand,
many people are plane ____ scared!   

Quite rightly so in my opinion!   :((

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giovanni

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2012, 09:48:57 PM »

What is a real pity is that the fanatical fundamentalist absolutists were preaching to the Republicans that if Obama was re-elected that he would ban all guns. This caused record massive gun sales in November and this month. It is easier to ban lawn darts than assault weapons because gun lobbies are not selling darts.
America is easily swayed by conservative tv and radio, even though they are speaking untruths 99% of the time. America had a much higher literacy rate once upon a time but now we are mostly dumbed down to the level of sheeple.
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Peter Fitness

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2012, 10:01:17 PM »

Australia banned unregulated gun ownership a long time ago, but it is still possible to own guns - if you have a legitimate reason. For example, farmers are allowed to own guns for vermin control. Members of rifle and gun clubs are also allowed ownership, as are genuine collectors. However, in all cases a permit must be obtained, which requires a test of the applicant's knowledge of gun laws and the safe keeping of weapons. There are also strict rules governing the storage and safe keeping of weapons and ammunition. Assault weapons, such as the AK47 are totally banned.


Nevertheless, it is still possible to obtain guns illegally, as evidenced by the number of drive by shootings in Sydney recently. Criminals will always find a way to circumvent the law, but strict gun control definitely makes it more difficult to obtain such weapons. News reports of President Obama's comments following the Newtown shooting suggest that he may be seriously considering tightening America's gun laws, although he will face stiff opposition from the red neck brigade.


Peter.
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BrianB6

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2012, 10:07:04 PM »

From one of our polititans.
Unfortunately we still have shootings as it is still to easy to buy them but at least there is some control down here.   It took the Port Aurther massacre to bring in the controls.
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giovanni

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2012, 10:11:30 PM »

FOX NEWS preaches extremism. And they are the exact opposite of National Public Radio.
They despise www.factcheck.org
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Peter Fitness

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2012, 10:21:13 PM »

It took the Port Arthur massacre to bring in the controls.


Very true, Brian. Unfortunately it usually take such events to motivate politicians >>:-(


Peter.
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pugwash

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2012, 11:09:38 PM »

I  know this is a terrible tragedy but what can you expect in a country when not only can you keep
semi-automatic rifles but there don't seem to be any restrictions on their security.
I used to have a couple of fairly inocuous .22 rifles - one for target shooting and one for rough shooting
they had to be kept in an approved steel gun cupboard with two locks and bolted to the wall/floor. The ammo was in
a locked compartment within and that had to have a different key. My certificate and security precautions were checked
every 3rd year - as was my requirement for having them. ( had to be in a rifle club and had to have land to shoot over)
 If they have to have their guns because  the constitution allows it at least make it law to have some form of security
so the children can't get ready access to guns/ammo
Geoff
 
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2012, 11:22:15 PM »

Quite Geoff, there seem to be a lot of accidents in the US where children get access to their parent's guns with fatal consequences.
 
Colin
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JayDee

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2012, 11:32:44 PM »

Hello,

Everybody agrees that the first persons on the scene at the school saw things they will never forget.
The photos taken of that scene should be published Internationaly, so that nobody ever forgets.
If they were published, Guns would be handed in by the lorry load.
John.  <:(
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giovanni

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2012, 11:40:13 PM »

So true !
We should never forget the faces of the children. They had so many years of life to live.
What a ripple affect of insanity.
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Bob K

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2012, 12:16:24 AM »

Some disturbing stats quoted by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg today.
 
  • Every day gun violence takes the lives of 34 Americans.
  • During the Presidents 4 year term of office 48,000 will be killed by guns.
  • Since 1968, and the assassinations of RFK and Martin Luther King, roughly 400,000 Americans have been killed with guns, more than in WW2.
Figures incomprehensible to us average Brits, where gun related deaths are approx 0.1 per 100,000, against 320 in the US.

Against this the bad guys there are usually far better armed than the Police, and in remoter rural areas it can take half an hour for a 911 response following an attempted break in where burglars are frequently armed.

America is a wonderful nation, but has some serious problems.  I have visited gun shops there, and have been both amazed and frightened just looking at what they have for sale.
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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2012, 03:56:46 AM »

There are parents training their kids in the States to shoot at the age of 5 or less. They can buy rifles designed & built for kids. It is BIG business. We had registration of rifles in Canada but the present Government got rid of the act, even though the country's police forces wanted it kept.The US National Rifle Association was involved in getting rid of the law. The gun culture in the U S is insane & actively promoted by the National Rifle Association of which Heston lobbied for at every opportunity. It is a sick country with regular police swaggering about with pistols on their hips & shotguns & rifles in racks in the back windows of their 4 wheel drive pickup trucks. It is still the Wild West but no longer with a horse & a single shot rifle or hand gun. You have to experience it to believe it, it is not possible to describe how bad it is.Kids 10 years old take loaded guns to school & is not isolated either. Nothing will be done & it sadly will all be repeated again & again & the innocent will die, what a sad & lost society. Mick B. 
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ardarossan

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2012, 06:52:56 AM »

This topic started as a reaction to the tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut and is now deviating into debate about guns and gun control.

Whilst both are emotive subjects, and are evoking a broad range of responses, they are not what one would normally expect to encounter on a family-oriented modelling site.

Now, before anyone thinks this is a 'Non-boat related Chit-Chat' argument, don't worry, just bear with me for a little longer as I've had a thought which I'd like to share. 

Following Pres. Obama's speech including a presentation of the necessity for change at the Memorial Service, and as more information is released through the media, this topic is inevitably going to become a political subject (if it's not already). Therefore, I wonder if maybe 'we' could also use this awful event to makes some changes too.

I've noticed that some of the non-boat related topics are started due to the seriousness of the subject-matter. These subjects also seem to generate reasonably similar opinions as 'commonsense' generally dictates the overall response.

However, as these subjects are often only relevant at the time they are occurring, and frequently become the source of a secondary 'debate' about the prevalence of non-boat related issues, could we not use them to do something positive as a model-boating community?

Quite simply, once a topic (such as this one) has been started, and if, after a short period of time the depth of feeling is obviously leaning a certain way, maybe an email (or similar) could be sent from the Mayhem Forum to advise the 'subject(s)' of that topic of our thoughts at that time.

Whilst not suggesting that the Forum takes any formal stance and, using this topic as a prime example, could we forward a 'group' correspondence to the community of Newtown advising them that at this time, a number of members of Model Boat Mayhem Forum would like to them to know that our thoughts are with them?.
We could also send a message to an 'official body', stating that this subject was raised on our Forum, and that a group of like-minded contributors do feel moved to announce that we hope steps are put in place to reduce the possibility of something similar happening again.

As I said, this is just a initial idea and I'll possibly regret writing it when I think about it for longer. However, whilst not wanting to become revolutionary, reactionary or political, it does seem a shame that we are all moved to add a reply to various subjects as and when they are raised in the Chit-chat section of a site where we share a common interest, but do wonder whether many of us put the same effort into making a comment where it might make a slight difference.

Andy
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2012, 01:50:30 PM »


 Consideration and empathy are our watchwords here.  :police:
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giovanni

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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2012, 05:13:17 PM »

Andy,
Good idea.
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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2012, 05:34:08 PM »

Think you are barking up the wrong tree Andy - the American society  has got to be SICK - a gunsmith was
interviewed on BBC News and said yesterday he had his best days sales in 20 years and would probably exceed
it today.  With that sort of mindset do you really think they would listen to reason with regards to reducing the number
of firearms.  I do sometimes think they live on a different planet to the rest of us.
Geoff
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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2012, 06:10:52 PM »

Nothing to do with mindset Geoff, the guy sells guns for a living and not everyone sold is for a killer. Totally understandable the sales increased for personal protection.
 
  There are many in this country I wouldn't trust with a peashooter.
 
  Regards  Ian.
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Re: The Newtown Tragedy
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2012, 06:23:04 PM »

And they are all in Westminster  :police: :police:
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