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Author Topic: this could all go horribly wrong  (Read 4123 times)

naufragium

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this could all go horribly wrong
« on: December 21, 2012, 02:13:15 PM »

hello all, a new year coming, another newbie. I recently found a part-built billings cutty sark on a second-hand market; damaged but hopefully repairable. Apart from a youthful dalliance with some Heller kits, I've limited experience (cue wincing and buttock-clenching). i just hope I can do justice to the previous builders' work, they certainly knew boat-building. happy Christmas to all, Chris
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 02:27:57 PM »


Hi there and welcome to Mayhem.

 Nice project ahead of you.  You'll have to let know how you get on.   :-))


Cheers

Ken

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naufragium

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 09:18:10 PM »

Thanks, I'll have to sort a photo service out and post some pics
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Stormbringer

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2012, 09:31:17 PM »

welcome aboard  :-))
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CJ

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2012, 12:11:06 AM »

Ooh nice  :-))  I've just been involved on the renovation of the real thing so let us see how you get on....happy boating !!  :}
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naufragium

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 11:36:55 AM »

I've been researching photos before I get too involved, very impressed with your work. Is there a specific place for ' build diaries' ?
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spearfish99

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2012, 12:28:20 PM »

Ooh nice  :-))  I've just been involved on the renovation of the real thing so let us see how you get on....happy boating !!  :}

 On a recent visit to London, got down to Greenwich and saw the Cutty Sark.  Didn't actually go round due to time constraints but the new set up looks truly breathtaking.  Congrats to everyone who was involved with its restoration back to what it is now
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2012, 09:21:43 PM »

Is there a specific place for ' build diaries' ?

I've moved you to the Sail section, so now you can continue with your build here.


Cheers

Ken
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naufragium

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2012, 11:46:59 PM »

Thanks Ken, here is what I'm dealing with. The previous builder did a great job with the hull, sadly holed. I don't think I could re-plank, so I plan to patch and copper (I'm easily hypnotized by bright shiny things).to that end I made a pencil rub template, glued in some bracing and cut a ply patch. Next I added some milliput to fill gaps and fill out so I hopefully sand back to the original curvature, I refer you back to the subject title. I've also drilled and pinned the mast together, seems strong enough. I I've gone badly wrong any tips greatly appreciated. Sort of commited to coppering the hull.
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derekwarner

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2012, 04:37:22 AM »

Chris.....from your posting I am unsure how far you have progressed, however that are a number of alternate repair methods for consideration
 
1. cut a rectangular access opening in the vessel deck level just above the damage hull area - the sizing of the opening would need to allow two thumbs & forfingers access...this rectangular opening could be on the vessel axis or off axis
2. cut & dress the damaged hull planking edges removing minimal material
3. cut a rectangular balsa reinforcing plate from say 1.5 mm material - the size rectangle would need to be say 10 mm longer and 15 mm wider than the overall foot print of the damaged hull section
4. glue the rectangular balsa reinforcing plate into the inside of the hull equally centered over the damaged hull....whilst I am not a fan of Superglue....it may be a good choice here
5. confirm the actual hull plank thickness & width.....obtain some 'same scale thickness & type of wood' planking from your local hobby shop
6. cut & glue the replacement planks to the outer surface of the rectangular balsa reinforcing plate ...the choice of glue will depend on the intended use of the vessel...static viewing?
7. light sand the new planking to blend in with the original hull planking
8. the new repaired hull surface will be robust enough for you copper plating should you wish to go down that path
9. the rectangular access opening in the vessel deck level can be similarily internally reinforced & replanked
 
Keep us posted with progress.......Derek
 
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Derek Warner

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hammer

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2012, 10:39:12 AM »

Regarding Derek'suggestion, To avoid cutting any more holes. First make the damaged hole a regular shape. Then cut the backing piece all as Derek suggests. Now place the backing over the hole, drill 3 small holes through both. Now the clever bit thread cord through the backing and knot on the inside, then thread the cord through the hull from the inside. Push the backing through the damaged hole pull the cords, the backing will be held in the correct position until any glue is set. Finish as Derek suggests. Geoff  aka R.G.Y.
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naufragium

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2012, 05:30:06 PM »

thanks, I've pretty much followed Derek and Geoffs' advice - used superglue to put in the frame and pulled from the front to keep contact. Had to use filler to pack out a depression beneath the hole, which didn't show in the pic. Looks untidy I know but hoping the copper tape will hide my sins. At the moment my other problem are the gunwales, I think this is an old kit - an 081 phone code on the instructions. Billings have the hull ribs extending through the deck to support the belaying pin rails and hand rails(?) see mast pic. All the photos I've seen show metal plate with bracing and no large protrusions. I thought of shaving back enough of the ribs to allow me to put plates along the gunwales and keep the rail support. I'm guessing there might be a 'sailors' model' / scale model decision I need to take. Once again many thanks Geoff and Derek, regards Chris
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derekwarner

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2012, 10:17:33 PM »

Chris......that suggestion from RGY  %)  of pulling [externally] with threads etc .....was a good thought  O0
 
To ensure your coppering adheres well,  lightly sand [up to 1200 W&D] to ensure you have a good surface prior to priming the area over the planking reclamation area
 
Ensure you mask the waterline ....[upper limit of the coppering] and also sand up to 12000 W&D of the complete underwater hull surface to remove any gloss surface or and dust build up over the years
 
I have never used the copper plates, however follow the manufacturers installation instructions fully & all should be OK
 
Keep us posted ...........Derek
 
   
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naufragium

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2012, 11:36:02 AM »

Will do, holding off coppering - might dent while I'm working on the deck. Trying resolve gunwales, I think I'll trim back the ribs and panel will brass shim with a gutter as per CSark. Happy new year Chris
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dlancast

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2012, 06:44:55 PM »

Nice project ahead of you Chris, reminds me of when I built the Flying Cloud... a 3 yr project at best.  I chose to copper her bottom using copper plates (over 2,000 of them).  Used contact cement which to my horror began to release plates two years into the project, I had to go back and individually wire brad each plate.  It was a horrendous job, but thankfully turned out very nice.  Sold her to a chap in Chicago.
What I really wanted to share was that I have discovered copper tape and love it.  I coppered the bottom of my Frigate I'm building and it worked like a charm.... hoping that the plates don't fall of in a few years! {:-{
But worth a shot and much, much easier and cheaper.
Good luck to ya.
Regards,
Dennis
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derekwarner

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2012, 10:57:49 PM »

Dennis....for the benifit of all, could you please provide a little detail on the copper tape & installation method  :-)) ........thanks Derek 
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Derek Warner

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dlancast

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2012, 11:36:51 PM »

You bet.  Back in 2011, I did the first of my Frigate build log to this forum.  In it I posted pictures and info on the method I used for copper plating.  You can find the posting in archives under: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 build. First post dated Nov. 5, 2011.  If anyone has a problem finding it, I can post the process here under a new topic.
Regards,
Dennis


http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=40203.msg401708#msg401708



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naufragium

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2012, 06:18:06 PM »

Just checked your frigate post, Dennis - an amazing build. Answered a lot of issues I'm yet to encounter. Also a little daunted by that level of detail, still patience... patience... A lot of deck work to resolve, hopefully the new year will bring inspiration. Many thanks to all, and hope that knee's better regards Chris
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dlancast

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2012, 09:49:52 PM »

Thank you Chris.  Oh, don't be too daunted with the project at hand.  I have seen that Cutty Sark kit modeled out and she is beautiful.  As in anything, you decide what you want to put into it.  As I remember building the Flying Cloud.  At the scale I was building (can't remember at the moment), you are somewhat limited to the degree of detail.  Things getting pretty tight, especially once rigging is started.  I only had a portion of the running rigging installed with no sails and it was a ton of rigging.  Even used chain at 30 links per inch where line would have sufficed.  I guess what I'm trying to say is just do what you are comfortable with, follow the plans (I assume you have a good set) and go as far as you want with it.  One thing is for sure, when its completed, it will be beautiful.  I think the best compliment I got on the Flying Cloud was "wow, look at all those sticks and strings!" {-)   Take your time and enjoy the experience.
Regards,
Dennis
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dlancast

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2012, 10:09:43 PM »

Here are a couple of pics to help inspire you.  Sorry, they are scans and truly do not show the amount of detail. But I think you get the idea.  Enjoy
Dennis
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dlancast

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Re: this could all go horribly wrong
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2012, 10:10:40 PM »

Oops, lets try that again.....
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