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Author Topic: Boeing Dreamliner grounding  (Read 3198 times)

roycv

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Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« on: January 17, 2013, 08:38:57 AM »

Hi all, apparently there is a problem with the Lithium ion batteries, quote from Reuters.

Yoshitomo Tamaki, director general at the Japan Transport Safety Board (JTSB), said checks on the ANA flight that made the emergency landing showed a bulge in the metal box that cases the main battery. The electric equipment bay, where the battery is located, had a strong smell of smoke and soot was found on the box and on two exterior valves used to regulate temperature in the plane. JTSB spokesman Takayuki Someya said the investigation would focus on whether this was battery-related.

Also one aircraft on the ground had an associated "fire" in the battery area.

Do any of our aviation experts know what is happening? 
The model boating fraternity use many different batteries, has anyone had a problem using Lithium-ion batteries?
I think we mainly use Lithium polymer ones, apart from the more common Nimh batteries etc.
I would be interested in any informed response.
regards to all,
Roy
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NFMike

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2013, 09:10:30 AM »

Could be faulty batteries, but the type of chemical is probably not very relevant. Possibly just a bad batch. But it's as likely to be a problem with the charging system as the batteries, so we'll have to wait and see.

malcolmfrary

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2013, 10:17:06 AM »

The troubles seem to be mounting - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21054089
While there can be problems with any battery technology, lithium does seem to be more sensitive than most.  A failure on lead or nickel is likely an annoyance rather than a disaster, the chance of disaster in the event of failure is much higher with lithium, whether its a bad batch or some problem in the charging control.
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Subculture

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2013, 01:23:45 PM »

A fire involving lithium is a problem, in that it burns pretty much uncontrollably. I would think that the battery packs are housed in a secure structure that would provide a great deal of protection against any fire spreading in order for the aeroplane to get an airworthiness cert.

I expect the issues are relatively minor, but authorities are correctly acting on the side of caution, as you get no second chances in the air. Plus you know how the media can bend things at times.

sailorboy61

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Netleyned

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2013, 05:43:42 PM »

Most people these days are walking around with a lithium battery in their pocket in a mobile phone.
Wife's Sony has a Lipo mine Motorola has a Li-ion.
Look out for pockets and handbags smoking  {-) {-) {-) {-)


Ned
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Jerry C

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2013, 07:05:08 PM »

If your pocket starts smoking on a yank plane the sky Marshall will probably shoot you.
Jerry.

NFMike

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2013, 06:17:44 PM »

And it seems they don't think it's the batteries that are faulty:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21230940

Which is good for people's confidence in Lithium batteries ... not so good for Boeing ...

roycv

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2013, 07:15:43 PM »

Hi all, assuming that the battery concerned can sit in the aircraft and be safe when not in use, then either it was over-charged or discharged at too high a level. 
Of course what did it?  There should be some cooked wiring somewhere!

I bet they need a 'consultant' to sort it out though!  But what do I know?  One can only hope that it is resolved quickly as a lot of peoples lively hoods depend on it.
regards, Roy

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2013, 07:16:08 PM »

Quote
If your pocket starts smoking on a yank plane the sky Marshall will probably shoot you.

I think almost any American will be happy to shoot you, smoking or not. And it will probably be with a military grade assault rifle.  :((
 
Colin
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2013, 08:38:38 PM »

Most Americans will shoot you, but a pistol is much more common.
The rule over that, is that you need to give the culpert your crack cocaine or your life. %)
Also, it will probably be a GLOCK. Apparently we support the Austrian economy.
Only mad men use assault rifles on the general public. I think it is a law.  {:-{

As for the batteries.
If you have an old cell phone sitting around the house unused, and ignored.
Better pull out the batteries and throw them out, or store them in a fireproof bag, or mug.
I found two old cell phones with bulged batteries last year while looking for a back up phone.
I had walked into the pond to straighten a buoy gate, and forgot I had my current phone in
my back pocket.  The old phones hadn't been picked up in over three years, and the batteries
had probably been over discharged over time.

tigertiger

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2013, 12:14:17 PM »

I remember a number of years ago there was a recall on laptops, where some of this particular model would self combust. I think it was around Y2K, but not connected to the big day.
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NFMike

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2013, 01:07:22 PM »

As for the batteries.
If you have an old cell phone sitting around the house unused, and ignored.
Better pull out the batteries and throw them out, or store them in a fireproof bag, or mug.
I found two old cell phones with bulged batteries last year while looking for a back up phone.
I had walked into the pond to straighten a buoy gate, and forgot I had my current phone in
my back pocket.  The old phones hadn't been picked up in over three years, and the batteries
had probably been over discharged over time.

That advice has been standard for all batteries in any device since before I was a child.
People often fell foul back then because most were the zinc cells - long before 'leakproof' (yeah, right) alkalines and other exotics became common. The EverReady with a blue cardboard outer cover had a pretty short shelf life and in my younger days I'd replace a torch or suchlike every couple of years because the batteries had leaked and it was corroded to that hot place.

I remember a number of years ago there was a recall on laptops, where some of this particular model would self combust. I think it was around Y2K, but not connected to the big day.

That was faulty batteries which is what the media immediately picked up as possibly being the Boeing problem. But it isn't.
I suspect that the quality/reliability of Lithium batteries isn't really any worse than other, older, types, but their much higher energy density means that when it fails the result is more spectacular. So clearly they need to be made and handled to a higher standard than, eg, Nickel cells.

malcolmfrary

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2013, 04:54:47 PM »

Quote
I suspect that the quality/reliability of Lithium batteries isn't really any worse than other, older, types, but their much higher energy density means that when it fails the result is more spectacular. So clearly they need to be made and handled to a higher standard than, eg, Nickel cells.
And or course, that applies equally to us when we use them, even though their batteries and charging circuits are somewhat larger than ours.
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roycv

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2013, 12:01:52 PM »

Hi all, did I miss something in the news?  Have they solved the battery problem?
regards Roy
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2013, 12:28:48 PM »

Not quite - "they" think that a suitable workaround has been submitted to the authorities for approval, apparently a redesign of the battery.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21796984

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hopeitfloats

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2013, 12:03:54 AM »

i know of a lot of electric model plane flyers in nz are having problems with lithium batteries catching fire or at least swelling up and getting very hot. especially on the charging cycle. not sure which type they are though.
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roycv

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2013, 08:59:20 AM »

Hi to both of you, thanks for the update.  Bit worrying about Lipo batteries though.
regards Roy
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sparkey

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Re: Boeing Dreamliner grounding
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2013, 09:07:51 AM »

 %% I bet they were using the same chinese batteries that I bought off you know where, after 3 charges only fit for the bin lesson learnt,Ray. %% %% %% %%
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