Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Problems  (Read 3212 times)

Angus64

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Location: Tasmania
Problems
« on: January 23, 2013, 05:40:28 AM »

Hi Boys. I had my boat on the lake today, But I have a problem.The boat sails out on the lake quite Ok for about five minutes then stops, usually out in the middle of the lake.Just as well it is only a small lake,  I still have radio contact with the boat because I can operate the booms for the nets. I am using a Twister Planet 5Ch 2.4GHZ park Fly Radio the same as my other boat, using a High-Mark Boat Speed Controller ((or a Action P79S Condor 10/2 autoset computer speed controller they both work well)) & an action P19 BEC 1A. Running a Chinese built 12VDC 5Pole 3000rpm motor, I striped the motor & checked it out all was good I also replaced the leads to the motor, I thought they looked a bit small. I can run the boat in my test tank (the bath) for 1 1/2 hours at full speed the motor is only warm not over heating. Can anyone tell me what is going wrong with the electrics.


    Angus



 
,





Logged

Tug-Kenny

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,680
  • Location: Newport. S Wales
Re: Problems
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2013, 12:16:27 PM »


Have you tried putting the motor on another channel and trying it on the lake.  Might be awkward and unusual but it would maybe, isolate the problem.


Ken

 
Logged
Despite the high cost of living   .......... It remains popular

chris gillespie

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Location: Ayrshire
Re: Problems
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2013, 12:52:54 PM »

there are a number of possibilities as im sure your aware.
 
we dont use many 2.4s at our club, so i wont include all the old crystal issues etc..... lol
 
interferance can be happening with your motor, im not very technical yet, but does the motors have wee supressor type things soldered on to the terminals ? this stops interferance....
 
recievers positioned too close to the motor or esc can interfere..........
 
now when i was an apprentice i was sent to fetch daft things and do daft things, im new to this game but ive been told an oldie....you can believe it or not.....the water and air can interfere with your signal intermitently and on different days in any location....
 
 :embarrassed:
 
Chris

Tug-Kenny

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,680
  • Location: Newport. S Wales
Re: Problems
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2013, 01:01:16 PM »


My thoughts were related to the throttle channel somehow shutting down. This is a Planet feature on some models.


Ken

Logged
Despite the high cost of living   .......... It remains popular

inertia

  • Guest
Re: Problems
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 03:24:37 PM »

Mine, too. 'Park Fly' radios have a very limited range and there is a fail-safe which is a b****y nuisance on a boat. Try using the elevator channel for the ESC and see if that cures it. If so there is a small mod you can do to the Tx to swap these two channels over permanently. Report back after trials, OK?
DM
Logged

Angus64

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Location: Tasmania
Re: Problems
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2013, 09:18:55 PM »

Thanks for your advice. I haven't tried it on another channel, I never thought of doing that. I have tried sitting the boat in its cradle & running the motor & moved about 30mts or more to see if the motor operated from around the same distance as it is on the water, & I was able to operate the motor forward & reverse quite Ok. I will put it back in the water & try it on another channel To see if that does fix the problem, If it doesn't I will try the radio & receiver from my other boat that's operating perfect & is the same set up as this boat , The motor doesn't have suppressors on it so I will fit them before I try it again. I will keep you informed as to what happens, I usually get the answers from this forum there is a lot of information out there   One way or another I will track the problem down.


     Angus.
Logged

Stavros

  • Guest
Re: Problems
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2013, 09:51:48 PM »

Right then why not find a field or local park get a friedn to hold boat abd go for a walk with the motor running and see when it cut out,then you will know if it is a range issue....Personally I think it might well be even though othe channels are operating.you can even do this from your house and walk down the street.....well you might get a few funny looks  O0 {-) {-) {-)
 
 
Dave
Logged

Neil

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,385
  • Location: near Fleetwood
Re: Problems
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2013, 11:25:37 PM »

and there is a fail-safe which is a b****y nuisance on a boat.
bet it's even more of a nuisance on a plane, Dave  {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
 
I'm going to bed, sorreeeeeee :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
Logged

NFMike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,062
  • Location: Hythe, Hants, UK
    • Plague Marine Services
Re: Problems
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2013, 11:33:26 PM »

bet it's even more of a nuisance on a plane, Dave

If it's what it sounds like to me it makes perfect sense. Plane is reaching edge of rc range and may go out of control. Kill throttle - pilot still has chance to turn and glide back into usable range. If he doesn't then gliding plane out of control is a lot less likely to kill someone than one going flat out.
OTOH it may just be a lousy rc system and I'm dreaming of intelligent design  :embarrassed:

Angus64

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Location: Tasmania
Re: Problems
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2013, 06:22:12 AM »

I have done as Dave suggested & walked up the street backwards holding my radio in front of me, & you are right I did get a few funny looks . I went 263 ft. up the street & was still in radio contact with the boat & that is quite a bit further than I am when I am sailing on the lake. also changed over to another channel still got the same result, So I am thinking it must be the motor breaking down in the boat. I don't think it would make any difference whether it was in the water as far as the radio is concerned. If anyone has any ideas as to what they think might be happing I would like their opinion because it is getting a bit tricky. The motor I am using is a chinese built 12VDC 5 Pole 3000rpm motor. I will try & put up some pictures so you can see what it looks like. It is a well built little motor& I cant understand why it will run for an hour & a half in the bath & not in the water on the lake.
   
         Angus.
Logged

Angus64

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Location: Tasmania
Re: Problems
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2013, 07:45:07 AM »

I cant get a picture up on the forum using attachment & other options, So I have put up the motor specifications.You might be able to get a better idea of what I am using from them.
     Angus.







PRODUCT NAME BRUSHED MOTOR
RATED VOLTAGE           DC12Volt
RATED CURRENT           0.58A
OUTPUT SPEED              3000rpm
RATED TORQUE             300G.cm
SHAFT DIAMETER           5mm\1.5"
 TOTAL LENGTH APPROX 84mm 3.3"


Logged

triumphjon

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 790
  • Location: portsmouth , hampshire
Re: Problems
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2013, 07:59:35 AM »

could this simply be a bad or loose connection between one or two components within  the model ? or maybe whilst underway in the water the amps are getting too high / or a component getting a little warmer and shutting down ? ive had escs shut down because they were getting too warm inside when being used on the water , yet in a bath tub they were fine ! have you got the rx as high in the model as possible  ? ive got mine up inside the wheelhouse on most of my electric models  . jon
Logged

Angus64

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Location: Tasmania
Re: Problems
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2013, 08:22:24 AM »

I have been right through the electrics & found nothing loose or overheating, I thought it may be the ESC & fitted a much higher amperage High-Mark ESC & it made no difference I have tried using the BEC built into the ESC & using Action P19 BEC & without making any difference I am using the Action P19 now. It is going to be something fairly obvious but I have have yet to find it. I thought it might be the motor over heating  shutting something down. That why I have put up the specification of the motor, someone who knows more about electrics may be able to tell me if it is to small. It is driving a 55mm three blade propeller. It may be to small the job. Everything is the same as my other boat except for the motor. I usually Use bigger wiring than I need to try & avoid things overheating.


    Angus


 


Logged

BrianB6

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 821
  • I'm not sure if I can get up from here
  • Location: Melbourne
Re: Problems
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2013, 09:02:26 AM »

Is the boat receiver aerial sufficiently above water level?
It should be as high as possible and if practical be in a vertical position.
2.4G is basically cut out underwater and you may be getting such effects.
Your range test on dry land will be different from on water so try your distance test with the boat on the water but not too close to the bank.
Logged

Angus64

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Location: Tasmania
Re: Problems
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2013, 10:11:55 AM »

I have my receiver mounted in the wheel house in a vertical position well above the other electronics , I will take the boat to the lake tomorrow & test the radio contact on the water & see what happens. thanks for the advice I will keep you informed.


     Angus.
Logged

Angus64

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Location: Tasmania
Re: Problems
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2013, 12:41:33 AM »

I have taken the boat back to the lake to check the radio contact distance, I put my receiver outside the wheel house & it still done the same thing. Changed over radio & receiver from my other boat which I know is working Ok, Still  the same result, so I am fitting a bigger motor to the boat to see if that rectifies the problem. I will let you know the results.


    Angus.
Logged

Angus64

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Location: Tasmania
Re: Problems
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2013, 05:22:32 AM »

Hi. I am back again with another question. Can anyone tell me if a Graupner speed 700BB Turbo 12V is a brushed motor & weather I can couple it to my propeller shaft & drive direct or is it to fast for that.


    Angus.

[/size][/size][/font][/color]
Logged

Angus64

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Location: Tasmania
Re: Problems
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2013, 10:40:57 AM »

Fitted a [size=0px]Graupner speed 700BB Turbo 12V to my Trawler Everything worked well no more problems, I can only assume the Chinese motor didn't live up to it's write up & was overloading the system & things were shutting down.[/size]
Logged

tt1

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,756
  • If I only know a little - then I can learn a lot
  • Location: Leicestershire
Re: Problems
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2013, 10:48:03 AM »

That's a nice looking boat you have Angus, was it a kit or scratch built?
         Glad you managed to sort out your problem.  Regards, Tony.
Logged

kmmbcwebmaster

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 131
  • Location: Sutton-in-Ashfield
    • Kingsmill MBC
Re: Problems
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2013, 12:51:13 PM »

What size amp switch gear are  using ? As you may be aware motor will be under greater strain when in water for example if using a 5amp switch when the boat is out of water the motor will not be under any strain so will run ok but when in water more strain is placed on the motor so draws more amps to compensate and trips out the switch gear as to much draw going through switch I suggest get a fellow members to help you do amp check on your switch gear while boat is in water .
Hope this helps
Ron 
Logged
just tugging along

Angus64

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Location: Tasmania
Re: Problems
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2013, 05:50:18 AM »

Hi Tony. I had the hull given to me, But it was not a stable boat in the water so I redesigned the hull above & below deck level so basically my own design except for the deck lines. You can find the original hull on this site & the redesigned hull before it was launched. As for the electrical switches I use 20A rocker switches & then through a fuse box to take care of overloading the system. it never blew any fuses with the other Chinese motor in the boat it just wouldn't operate for any more than around five minutes, still a mystery as to what was happening. But all is good now & I will enjoy my sailing.


  Angus.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up