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Author Topic: Sheet runs below deck  (Read 3688 times)

Richardjm

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Sheet runs below deck
« on: January 29, 2013, 08:39:14 PM »

Hi All


I am scratch building a scale sailing trawler. To keep it as scale as possible, I suspect that the sheet runs below deck may be somewhat tortuous. What are the best materials to use for the sheets and the tubes they will run in? I was imagining PTFE tubing but I dont know how easy it would be to create and maintain bends in this material. Of course I can use brass. I think I read somewhere about a suitable lubricant but I cannot remember for sure.


At the moment I propose to use a winch system for the main and mizzen, foresail can look after itself on a horse and I may fit a servo arm to pull the jibs across when going about. The hull is about finished so I need to get the RC arrangement sorted before I fit the deck.


Hoping for some help
Thanks
Richardjm
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mrpenguin

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 09:30:14 PM »

I have used annealed brass tube for runs of line below deck - no lubricant needed. Remove sharp edges at end of tubes.
Have also used drinking straws in another similar application - works fine but cannot be bent and fastened as easily as brass...
Couple of examples below - this is on a Surmount with loop winch modification. Bent using a spring over the annealed tube...
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tigertiger

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2013, 02:40:06 AM »

Have a look at items 60A,B,C,D and Z on this page http://sailsetc.com/fithull.htm#
They may give you some ideas.
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rmaddock

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2013, 10:56:02 AM »

Can I direct you attention HERE, to the middle of my on-going build log?  I too am building a sailing trawler.  Mine has an open cockpit so the space for sheeting was very limited indeed.  You can see from the above link onwards what I've done. I'm not suggesting it's right (in fact I'd be amazed if it is), but it shows how I went about things.

Cheers!
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kiwimodeller

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2013, 09:30:08 AM »

Some years ago I was given some flexible but relatively stiff nylon? or similar tubing which was sold by model shops to make long linkages to the rudder etc of model planes. The sheet went through this esily. Because of the "springyness" it had to be fastened in a few places under the deck but it worked fine with an S bend in one end and a 90 degree bend at the other. Dont have the boat any longer so cant do a photo but I would suggest you talk to your local shop. Hope this helps, Ian.
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tigertiger

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2013, 09:35:23 AM »

PTFE tubing might do it. Maybe 3mm OD 2mm ID.
Lots on ebay.
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JayDee

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2013, 11:49:55 AM »

Hello,
Brake pipe as used on car brakes, a big garage should be able to give you a couple of feet of it.
Bends very easily, bell the ends out and make them smooth, no rusting.
Used it on my J Class with no problems.
 John.  :-))
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Richardjm

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2013, 08:10:09 PM »

Wow
I love this website. Every problem I have has been encountered before and resolved in so many different ways. I think maybe I was getting too complicated and losing track of the keep it simple principle. I will use brass tube as that will be easy to bend and to bell mouth.


I have found that B&Q sell 2 aluminium extrusions that will telescope together. Winch at one end, lay pulley at the other end a spring to maintain the endless loop tension. I should be able to make the assembly removable for maintenance as I am concerned about the limited access through the deck.


Thanks for all the help


Richardjm
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mrpenguin

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2013, 10:23:19 PM »

.... I will use brass tube as that will be easy to bend and to bell mouth.......
Richardjm
The brass tube I get around here does not bend well. It needs to be annealed before atempting to bend it (heat to dull red, allow to cool slowly)
I have some bending springs that fit over the section of tube while you bend it - makes it easy and the result is nice smooth bends with no deformation of the tube.
 
The springs look like these but are hobby size of course...
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/brasscraft-tube-bending-spring-set-t073.html
 
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JayDee

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2013, 11:48:19 PM »

Hello,
 Brake piping bends with finger pressure!.
No need for springs or anything else.
John.
 
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roycv

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2013, 03:01:40 PM »

Hi all, I use quite narrow hard plastic tube, comes in many colours.  I don't have long lengths unless it is to keep the sheet from dangling on something else. 
I mainly use it for the "bends" or where you might use a pulley.  I bend the tube for going around corners ( maybe 1/2 inch dia.) with boiling water, then cool it with cold and it stays bent, cut to size and attach to a bulkhead, generally loosely hanging there.
 Threading the sheets through or if that is difficult I found some extremely narrow springy wire which can have a long hook bent into it and will still go through a 1 mm tube.  You can then pull them through.
I have not had anything wear out over many years.

I suppose some light grease may help but I have never bothered.

regards Roy
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tigertiger

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2013, 01:26:43 AM »

I would also stay with using it for the bends only. Longer lengths will only add to the friction surface, and make it hard to thread the sheet through.
I don't think I would use grease, as it collects dust and dries out I think it will become a potential source of sticktion.
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vnkiwi

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2013, 01:33:59 AM »

Hi guy's,
If you ever want to 'lub' tubes etc, then I suggest using a dry graphite powder, and simply puff a bit into the ends of the tube. Being dry, doesn't attract greebblies as does grease. being graphite, nothin' sticks to it and doesn't react with anything. Locksmiths use it to lubricate locks etc, and comes in a little puffer bottle similar in size to the larger "superglue" bottles.
Magic stuff
cheers
vnkiwi
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CF-FZG

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2013, 08:10:41 PM »

The brass tube I get around here does not bend well. It needs to be annealed before atempting to bend it (heat to dull red, allow to cool slowly)

If you have a K&S stockist near you, they do a 1/8" brass tube for fuel tanks - it's already annealed and easy to bend with fingers.


Mark.
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Richardjm

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 04:45:14 PM »

Hi Roy


Plastic tube? Can you give a bit more info please as it sounds good.


Thanks
Richardjm
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hammer

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Re: Sheet runs below deck
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 07:53:57 PM »

Plastic tube as sold for fuel lines in model aircraft is what I use.  My trawler has 1 drum servo for main & mizzen, an arm servo to opperate the fore sails. 2 normal servo one the rudder 1 to turn, the other moves a plate out & in this doubles the area (almost). Also another drum lowers and retracts a centre plate. The last two items can't be seen out of the water so tell on one.
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